Oracle Express Edition or Oracle Enterprise Edition as a local database....

[altquark]

I've been doing a little investigation of what is actually installed with Standalone when you install it with an Oracle Local Database. I personally thought that Oracle Express edition (XE) is the database that is installed, but when I check both the 9.0.2 Standalone AND the 9.0.1 Standalone, I see the following :

[ QUOTE ]

SQL> select * from v$version
2 where banner like 'Oracle%';

BANNER
----------------------------------------------------------------
Oracle Database 10g Enterprise Edition Release 10.2.0.3.0 - Prod


[/ QUOTE ]

To make sure, I checked a running deployment server that I just installed from edelivery.oracle.com, and received the exact same version.

When I check the MTR I see the following note (under Deployment Server MTR) :

[ QUOTE ]
· Oracle Database 10g R2 Enterprise Edition – Customers should choose to use Oracle Database 10g R2 Enterprise Edition as the local database for the deployment server if they intend to standardize on Oracle technology or if they are concerned about exceeding the 4 GB data limit with Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Express. Customers who choose to use Oracle Database 10g R2 Enterprise Edition should note the minimum hardware recommendations above.

· If the deployment server is running on Microsoft Windows Server 2008 R2, then Oracle Database 11g R2 Enterprise Edition is required as the local database. Oracle provides a specific installation program for this purpose. For instructions on installing Oracle Database 11g R2 as the local database for the deployment server refer to My Oracle Support document 705463.1: "Update 23: All Platforms and Databases – Deployment Server Support for Microsoft Windows Server 2008 R2 and Development Client Support for Microsoft Windows 7.”



[/ QUOTE ]

The planned Statement of Direction (note ID 749393.1) states the following :

[ QUOTE ]

Withdrawals : Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Express as the local database for deployment server and development client. Future releases will use only Oracle Database for the local database


[/ QUOTE ]

So what is going on here ? Is Oracle "sneaking" Enterprise Edition versions of the database onto clients and deployment servers - and suddenly everyone is going to be hit with a big license fee ? Whats the cost of 300 developers on a project using this model ?!

Or is Oracle "waiving" license fees for the EnterpriseOne Local Database ? Not even "standard" edition is valid, the MTR specifically states Enterprise Edition.

 

[cdawes]

Nothing sneaky here. A lot of Oracle products come with a free database to be used as a locel repository only. Most of these use Standard Edition

However JDE requires Enterprise Edition for only one feature not found in Standard - transportable tablespaces.

Its all an eventual change but my early experiences with OEE as the local DB weren't a perfect 10. The memory requirement is a killer and its no secret that SQL Server (SSE) is just easier to work with.

There is no current tool but I'll bet that there will be a conversion engine to switch from SSE to OEE when it becomes mandatory.

Colin

 

[altquark]

Colin - I agree with what you're saying, but what is stopping oracle enforcing all the users beyond 8.99 Tools Release to convert to Oracle Enterprise Edition, and then at some point in the future slapping a $8000 license fee for each workstation and deployment server through an audit ?

My reason for posting this in a public forum was not because I was unsure "why" Oracle Enterprise Edition was being used over, say, Standard Edition - but because I want a public thread for future reference at this point in time so that they understand there MIGHT be a licensing issue.

What I WANT to see, is a MTR that specifically states "Oracle Enterprise Edition xxx is required, and a license fee is waived for the local database on the Deployment Server and Developer Client"...or something like that.

Here is what GSS answered :

[ QUOTE ]

You are correct, only the OEE (Enterprise Edition) database version is supported as the local database for the Deployment Server.

Regarding the licenses topic, for either local database (SSE or OEE), no separate end-user licensing is required for the installation of the database by the Deployment Server installer.

It should be noted, however, that neither installed database is fully functional relative to the commercial versions of the products that are installed separately using the database vendor's installers (Note 946561.1).

To install the Deployment server with OEE database, first of all you need to download the "JD Edwards EnterpriseOne 9.0 Deployment Server-Oracle Local Database" installer, which includes an OEE installer (version 10.2.0.3), but you will need a newer version, since you are on Windows 2008 R2 platform, so you need to download and install OEE 11gR2 version BEFORE installing the deployment server, you can find instructions on this in "JD Edwards EnterpriseOne Applications Release 9.0 Installation and Upgrade Guides" document, update 23 (Note 705463.1)


[/ QUOTE ]

So although they refer to the fact that the installed database is "limited" in its use, they then instruct the requirement to install OEE 11gR2 - which is NOT limited ! Its all very confusing....(from a licensing perspective)...

 

[brother_of_karamazov]

We talked with some people in Denver about the use of Enterprise Edition when it was first supported for the Deployment Server. It takes a huge amount of memory where Standard could be used. I dismissed it's use for that reason.



[ QUOTE ]
I've been doing a little investigation of what is actually installed with Standalone when you install it with an Oracle Local Database. I personally thought that Oracle Express edition (XE) is the database that is installed, but when I check both the 9.0.2 Standalone AND the 9.0.1 Standalone, I see the following :

[ QUOTE ]

SQL> select * from v$version
2 where banner like 'Oracle%';

BANNER
----------------------------------------------------------------
Oracle Database 10g Enterprise Edition Release 10.2.0.3.0 - Prod


[/ QUOTE ]

To make sure, I checked a running deployment server that I just installed from edelivery.oracle.com, and received the exact same version.

When I check the MTR I see the following note (under Deployment Server MTR) :

[ QUOTE ]
· Oracle Database 10g R2 Enterprise Edition – Customers should choose to use Oracle Database 10g R2 Enterprise Edition as the local database for the deployment server if they intend to standardize on Oracle technology or if they are concerned about exceeding the 4 GB data limit with Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Express. Customers who choose to use Oracle Database 10g R2 Enterprise Edition should note the minimum hardware recommendations above.

· If the deployment server is running on Microsoft Windows Server 2008 R2, then Oracle Database 11g R2 Enterprise Edition is required as the local database. Oracle provides a specific installation program for this purpose. For instructions on installing Oracle Database 11g R2 as the local database for the deployment server refer to My Oracle Support document 705463.1: "Update 23: All Platforms and Databases – Deployment Server Support for Microsoft Windows Server 2008 R2 and Development Client Support for Microsoft Windows 7.”



[/ QUOTE ]

The planned Statement of Direction (note ID 749393.1) states the following :

[ QUOTE ]

Withdrawals : Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Express as the local database for deployment server and development client. Future releases will use only Oracle Database for the local database


[/ QUOTE ]

So what is going on here ? Is Oracle "sneaking" Enterprise Edition versions of the database onto clients and deployment servers - and suddenly everyone is going to be hit with a big license fee ? Whats the cost of 300 developers on a project using this model ?!

Or is Oracle "waiving" license fees for the EnterpriseOne Local Database ? Not even "standard" edition is valid, the MTR specifically states Enterprise Edition.


[/ QUOTE ]

 

[cmanderson]

I believe OEE may fall in as a "limited / right to use" license. Oracle Portal, OID, etc. have had this type of requirement for a long time. As with Colin's example (TTS) the products I mentioned require certain features not found in Standard Edition, thus you are required to install the Enterprise Edition under a strict limited use license.

If you download the OEE 11g R2 binaries from eDelivery, you'll see it's not a "full blown version" of Oracle Database Enterprise Edition, at least as far as the installation process is concerned. OEE 11g R2 is required in the MTR if you're going to install the Deployment Server on Windows 2008 R2, along with Tools 8.98.4.2 or 8.98.4.3.

I snickered when the documentation lead me to manually extract .cab files prior to installing this "special version" of OEE.

IIRC, I believe you'll find (on My Oracle Support) some references to OEE as a sort of "stripped down" copy of Enterprise Edition, with no management tools, pre-encrypted sys and system passwords among other things. These will probably not stop someone from using the database "for other things", but if you're going to do that, you'd probably just download the real deal and put it someplace other than your E1 Deployment Server, Developer or Standalone fat client.

[ QUOTE ]
Colin - I agree with what you're saying, but what is stopping oracle enforcing all the users beyond 8.99 Tools Release to convert to Oracle Enterprise Edition, and then at some point in the future slapping a $8000 license fee for each workstation and deployment server through an audit ?

My reason for posting this in a public forum was not because I was unsure "why" Oracle Enterprise Edition was being used over, say, Standard Edition - but because I want a public thread for future reference at this point in time so that they understand there MIGHT be a licensing issue.

What I WANT to see, is a MTR that specifically states "Oracle Enterprise Edition xxx is required, and a license fee is waived for the local database on the Deployment Server and Developer Client"...or something like that.

Here is what GSS answered :

[ QUOTE ]

You are correct, only the OEE (Enterprise Edition) database version is supported as the local database for the Deployment Server.

Regarding the licenses topic, for either local database (SSE or OEE), no separate end-user licensing is required for the installation of the database by the Deployment Server installer.

It should be noted, however, that neither installed database is fully functional relative to the commercial versions of the products that are installed separately using the database vendor's installers (Note 946561.1).

To install the Deployment server with OEE database, first of all you need to download the "JD Edwards EnterpriseOne 9.0 Deployment Server-Oracle Local Database" installer, which includes an OEE installer (version 10.2.0.3), but you will need a newer version, since you are on Windows 2008 R2 platform, so you need to download and install OEE 11gR2 version BEFORE installing the deployment server, you can find instructions on this in "JD Edwards EnterpriseOne Applications Release 9.0 Installation and Upgrade Guides" document, update 23 (Note 705463.1)


[/ QUOTE ]

So although they refer to the fact that the installed database is "limited" in its use, they then instruct the requirement to install OEE 11gR2 - which is NOT limited ! Its all very confusing....(from a licensing perspective)...

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[cmanderson]

[ QUOTE ]

You are correct, only the OEE (Enterprise Edition) database version is supported as the local database for the Deployment Server.

Regarding the licenses topic, for either local database (SSE or OEE), no separate end-user licensing is required for the installation of the database by the Deployment Server installer.

It should be noted, however, that neither installed database is fully functional relative to the commercial versions of the products that are installed separately using the database vendor's installers (Note 946561.1).

To install the Deployment server with OEE database, first of all you need to download the "JD Edwards EnterpriseOne 9.0 Deployment Server-Oracle Local Database" installer, which includes an OEE installer (version 10.2.0.3), but you will need a newer version, since you are on Windows 2008 R2 platform, so you need to download and install OEE 11gR2 version BEFORE installing the deployment server, you can find instructions on this in "JD Edwards EnterpriseOne Applications Release 9.0 Installation and Upgrade Guides" document, update 23 (Note 705463.1)


[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't see this response in your follow up. Sorry about that.

 

[altquark]

[ QUOTE ]
I believe OEE may fall in as a "limited / right to use" license.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is what I believe in too. But assuming that we have the "right to use" is not the same as Oracle turning around and GRANTING license to use. I know its a technicality, but its worrisome that Oracle could utilize this to generate almost $500m in new revenue....


[ QUOTE ]
I snickered when the documentation lead me to manually extract .cab files prior to installing this "special version" of OEE.


[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. Its not a very good way to implement - but it IS relatively early days currently. I'm sure that they'll get things improved upon, but me argument is currently that this "reeks" of being rushed to market, especially with the end of support for SQL Server Express. What SHOULD have happened by now is that Oracle Express should have been correctly supported somehow (perhaps Oracle Express needs to have Transportable Tablespaces added in the next release?) and we'd have seen some version supporting Oracle XE reliably - giving us lots of comfort dropping all the SQL Server Express databases everywhere.

But right now, customers are NOT comfortable.