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IBM WebSphere Application server Base Edition

kitsants2

Member
Hi folks - I just want to ask if anyone has ever used/implemented IBM WAS Base edition for the HTML server? How's your experience? How's is it any different from the Network Deployment Edition in terms of performance, etc. (of course price wise ND edition is more expensive). The reason I ask is because we are currently evaluating our options whether to move go Oracle Tech Foundation or stay with IBM Websphere. Thanks in advance for your help.

Kit
 

altquark

Legendary Poster
If I understand it, WAS Base is the same as the old "websphere standard" edition, and WAS ND is the "enterprise" edition.

I believe that all you need is the WAS Base, just like all you need is Weblogic Standard edition. The clustering features in Websphere aren't recommended to be used in my opinion, since the cost and effort doesn't compare against a hardware loadbalancer, or even an often-used open source loadbalancer like Zen LoadBalancer.

If you HAVE to make a decision on whether to buy Websphere or Weblogic, I'd definitely suggest weblogic through the JDE Technology Foundation license, as you'll receive the same support from as your application stack, and most companies are running Weblogic - even if they're running iSeries or other IBM technology stacks (they're running Weblogic on Windows or Linux).

I'll be able to provide a little more information in the next couple of weeks, as I'm doing a websphere base edition installation for a JDE customer myself !
 

kitsants2

Member
Thanks very much Jon. We are getting F5 very soon thus I'm considering getting the Base Edition. But I'm also exploring the WebLogic route.

I'm looking forward for your feedback.

Kit
 

altquark

Legendary Poster
Kit - don't forget, save $$$ and implement Zen Load Balancer for FREE if you're just looking at load-balancing JDE. If you want to spend $$$$ and buy an F5, then great - but a lot of customers are having the exact same functionality as an F5 in an easier to implement open-source package.
 

Soumen

Reputable Poster
Where do you get the install files for WebSphere Base version? The Update Center only lists the install files for WAS ND and Express Editions (8.5.5).
 

altquark

Legendary Poster
I think they're both called "Websphere Express" - one is an "ND" edition, the other isn't - so I presume we're calling that one the "base" edition !!!

Damn IBM and their confusing renaming conventions.

And just to confirm, I just implemented Websphere 8.55 (non-ND, ie, Base) edition for a customer - and it's working fine (within its own limitations of course !!!)
 

Soumen

Reputable Poster
I think they're both called "Websphere Express" - one is an "ND" edition, the other isn't - so I presume we're calling that one the "base" edition !!!

Damn IBM and their confusing renaming conventions.

And just to confirm, I just implemented Websphere 8.55 (non-ND, ie, Base) edition for a customer - and it's working fine (within its own limitations of course !!!)
Thanks Jon.

Would you kindly list just some of the limitations of using this WebSphere Express/Base version over ND (apart from the clustering feature).
Any limitation on JVM memory size which might effect JDE performance?

Thanks again,
Soumen
 

altquark

Legendary Poster
The big limitation, in my opinion, is the fact that IBM require their "own" JDK to run Websphere. Which is often out-of-date even when you take into consideration the fixpacks.

We're already up to, what, 91 updates to Java 1.8 ? And only 9 "fixpacks" to Websphere 8.55. Which could conceivably mean that Websphere takes longer to fix a security flaw that might be updated by Oracle a lot sooner. Why on earth IBM doesn't allow their customers just to pick their own JDK ?!
 

Soumen

Reputable Poster
Okay I have a follow up question: What version of SDK you installed with WAS Base/Express?
I am using the same SDK install files I had used with my ND install setups and when I do a "managesdk -listAvailable" it lists ..

C:\IBM\WebSphere\AppServer\profiles\AppSrv01\bin>managesdk -listavailable
CWSDK1003I: Available SDKs :
CWSDK1005I: SDK name: 1.6_32
CWSDK1005I: SDK name: 1.7_32
CWSDK1001I: Successfully performed the requested managesdk task.

I was expecting something like below..

CWSDK1003I: Available SDKs :
CWSDK1005I: SDK name: 1.6_64
CWSDK1005I: SDK name: 1.7_64
CWSDK1001I: Successfully performed the requested managesdk task.


My question is do we even have the option of a 64 bit JDK with WAS Base? Without the 64-bit JVM I am stuck with the memory heap size limit of 2 gig.

Thanks for some enlightenment here..

-Soumen
 

altquark

Legendary Poster
Soumen - did you find the 64bit SDK ? I checked on the oracle website, and evidently they don't have it there anymore....?! It makes me wonder how these JDE Technology Foundation licensed customers are going to get updates/patches in the future with websphere after Oracle cuts off support.....
 

Soumen

Reputable Poster
Jon - I could not, having real trouble locating the 64-bit SDK. The IBM download link is asking for sitenumber key (which seems to be specific to customers) which I currently don't have.

BTW, Are we really sure that WebSphere Express would have a 64-bit SDK? because while researching I found a link on the IBM site which says ...

"WebSphere Application Server Express is provided exclusively as a 32-bit application with the exception of HP-UX on IA64 where it is provided in 64-bit."

Ref:- http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=swg27021537

I believe I would probably need the WebSphere Base version rather than the Express version. Then again Oracle Update center does not have the WebSphere Base version listed as download.
arrgghhhhh.....
 

altquark

Legendary Poster
I think I have a solution for you.

First of all, the correct installation document for installing Websphere on Windows NT is located at :

http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E61420_01/EOHWU/inst_config_was85_win.htm

Thats the first thing. Secondly, the files you need to download from the Update Center are NOT the ones in the installation document ! They don't tell you the right files !

What you ACTUALLY need is as follows :

IBM_WAS_8.5.5_InstMgr - Websphere Application Server 8.5.5 ND Install Manager
IBM_WAS_8.5.5_ND (note, this is a "Multi-platform" not "INTELNT" platform)
IBM_WAS_8.5.5_ND_SUPPL (note, this is a "Multi-platform" not "INTELNT" platform)
IBM_WAS_8.5.5_SDK_1.7 (again, this is a "Multi-platform" not "INTELNT" platform)

This constitutes the "repositories" for the three locations in the documentation :
Z:\Software\WAS855\ND\repository.config
Z:\Software\WAS855\Suppl\repository.config
Z:\Software\WAS855\JDK17\repository.config

If you go through the instructions, and you're installing on a 64bit OS, then you should get the 64bit 1.7 JDK (I will confirm later today)

Now, for the Server Manager Console (if you are deploying on the Deployment Server) - and for the Development Workstations, you INSTEAD need to download :
IBM_WAS_8.5_INSTMGR
IBM_WAS_8.5.5_EXPRESS

Therefore, Websphere Express is NOT "base" - whatever that is. And you were right, Websphere Express is only 32bit - which is fine for the Server Manager Console and the Development Workstations, but not for a "real" server.

Therefore, the only other option that seems to be available to Technology Foundation customers is the "ND" version. But if you were licensing directly from IBM, I'd think that "base", if that is a different license, would work too, providing it can utilize 64bit JDK.

[/beginrant]

What a convoluted P.O.C. !

Just FYI, all you IBM Websphere users, Oracle Weblogic is a SINGLE JAVA .JAR FILE and utilizes whatever JDK you start the install with. If you are installing Weblogic on a development machine, you use a 32bit JDK to start the install, and if you're installing weblogic on a 64bit server, you use a 64bit JDK to start the install. Why oh why has IBM created "multiple products" for "multiple OS's" and "multiple JDK's". No wonder why IBM stock is falling....

[/endrant]
 
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Soumen

Reputable Poster
Thanks for confirming and checking on this Jon.

"If you go through the instructions, and you're installing on a 64bit OS, then you should get the 64bit 1.7 JDK (I will confirm later today)"

I can confirm that I can see the 64bit 1.7 JDK now ... going through those instructions and using ND.

Regards,
Soumen
 

Wahlm217

Member
We looking to upgrade to 9.2.3 - currently using IBM WAS, looking at using WAS Base or Weblogic standard with software-based LB - maybe Nginx, Windows NLB, or something else to provide high availability and horizontal scaling.

Does anyone know what if any JDE E1 9.2 features won't be available or as integrated with using WAS vs. WebLogic, I thought I read something about BI publisher or something?

Anyone know what the cost is/would be for Oracle Weblogic standard vs using IBM WAS base, provided we still have and continue to have active support/software maintenance with Oracle on JDE E1 - One of the line items includes Technology foundation.
 
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