AS/400 Sizing

Looking for some opinions on sizing an AS/400, have some info now from various partners and the sizing is very different. This is where we are:
B733.1 SP11.3
AS/400 820 V4R5
100 GB Storage (25 GB for PROD Data)
2000 CPW (we peak around 1500)
2 CPUs
175 users - mainly Citrix

We are looking to go to 8.10, we don't use advanced pricing or advanced warehousing, we would put Websphere outside the 400.

Any thoughts on what the new box should look like based on real world experience ?

I work for a PeopleSoft EnterpriseOne Partner who is also an IBM Business Partner with the Value Add (authorized to do sizings for PeopleSoft on all IBM platforms).

Most of our clients are on AS/400.

Based on what you've given me and my experience you should be upgrading to a 2 - way i5 550 with 6000 CPW. Yes this is a little more than double what the "sizer" will dictate but who want's minimum requirements anyways? We've got several clients almost exactly your size..........3 bought the 2 way i5 550 with 6000 CPW and are very happy. IF you go with a 1 way 520 with 3000 CPW then you may have to add a processor later on which will increase your "P" level. The i5 550's maintain the same P20 level regardless of the number of CPU's you out in it.

The above "sizing" also takes into account future consideration for "Web". When you go to Web all BSFN's run on the Enterprise Server (except a few supplied as native java code) so it is more backended than Citrix.

I usually run Web on Intel since this is often cheaper than LPAR..........I only run Web on the AS/400 if it's in a seperate LPAR.

You different vendors are likely pitching a 520 and a 550. Even if you just get a 1 way with 3000 CPW the 550 may be cheaper in the long run especially when you add the 2nd CPU (yeah you will eventually). However, I'd start with a 2 way 550 with 6000 CPW and make users happy from day one. This way it will appear that the 8.10 is "faster" than B733.1.

Colin

Just curious...............

how the heck are you planning to get from B7331 to 8.10? Karma? Divine intervention?

Colin

Hi Colin.

I hope he knows that he going to first have to upgrade to XE and then to 8.10.

That is going to be fun.

6000 CPW for 175 users!!! Am I the only one who finds that insane?

Nick

Thanks for all of the input. We will have to make a brief data stop in XE due to the DB changes, we've talked to a couple of companies that have done it and it does not seem to be as bad as it looks like.

As to the sizing if you think 6000 CPW is crazy we where told if we where using advanced pricing, advanced warehousing, and web we would need a 4-way with 14000 CPW (its not a typo 14,000) and 2 TB of storage to get the number of drive arms needed to keep disk access up to speed

Talk to some folks at the IBM / PeopleSoft EnterpriseOne Competency Center. Given drive speeds and the latest controllers the whole disk arm thing as been rewritten. I've spoken to several companies that have gone from the older 4-way machines to the new i5 iSeries 1-way boxes 510's and 520's and no one has regretted the move or suggested that they should have gotten another processor. Evidently the new multi threading and caching is making a difference.

Re: RE: AS/400 Sizing

that sizing seems so extream. For users we have about:
50 Financial
50 Sales
40 Warehouse

We use advanced warehousing and advanced pricing. We run on an 830 4 way.

We are currently going through the process of having IBM do some capacity planning for us as we roll out XE to our next company. I am fearful of what will come back for sizing...

Re: RE: AS/400 Sizing

Being an Intel person I would like to ask all the AS\400 people on why they choose this platform? My understanding is that AS\400 was ideal for large shops and that Intel was ideal for small shops. We for example have 60 users and have never had any major problems in three years. Or is it that was the standard platform at the time and you have always stuck to it?

Has anyone ever done price comparisons between both including the DB level?

My biggest concern with Enterprise One is the DR which I will attack using VMWARE. With virtual machine technology growing at a rapid rate I will soon virtualize the deployment server and enventually virtualize the Enterprise server when VMWARE 4-way ESX server is available. This software will also make my testing much much I have already virtualized a web server successfully.

We are looking at the HR module which may result in a major increase of users therefore the reson for the comparison question.

Thanks!

Re: RE: AS/400 Sizing

Yes it may seem extreme except that if you go from a 4 way 830 to a 2 way 550 you get 50% more CPW, you reduce your maintenance by 15% and you reduce your lease by about the same.

Now does that still seam extreme?

Re: RE: AS/400 Sizing

Yes it does. I am strictly talking about CPW. Why such a box would be spec'd out to support that number of users.

If you are strictly talking about costs, then still yes it is still extream, because reducing your maintenance doesn't cover the cost of such an upgrade. So I reduce my maintenance, I get more CPU, but it will cost me a lot of money. We do not lease we buy.

Nick

Re: RE: AS/400 Sizing

I've been through the whole sizing exercise a couple of times and have pretty much found it to be more of a Black Art than a Science.
You might want to look at Unix servers like Sun boxes their pricing has come way down and they don't have to be rebooted like WinTel boxes almost require periodically.

Just a couple of comments concerning the sizing. We are currently running Xe on an 820 (2 way, 700 Gb DASD, 6 Gb RAM, 2350 CPW/120 Interactive) and are planning the migration to 8.10. We run all distribution, manufacturing, financials, and job cost modules including Advanced Pricing and Transportation. We have 110 concurrent users licensed for the system (average about 80 at any given time) and the system is SLOOOOOW most days. The hit on advanced pricing is a real killer. Our users are on Citrix for the most part with Web as a backup for all and primary for our shippers.

After sitting down with IBM and a couple of the business partners, the consensus was to upgrade to a Standard edition 550 with 10 Gb RAM, 1 Tb DASD, and 6000 CPW (no interactive). At first blush, this looks extreme, especially to anyone using the standard IBM sizer and using the USER count as the sole criteria. Size based on number of USERS only you will have a bunch of extremely ticked off users on your back.

Be aware that the operating costs of this machine will be lower then your current box. In our case our 820 is classified as a P30 processor group and since we are XE we are getting hit with the interactive penalty from IBM. Going to 8.10 will only require a standard addition box (no interactive) and the new box is classified as a P20 (big savings on software and maintenance.

When you do your migration, work it out so that you keep both boxes on site for the duration of your migration. Setup a production and development environment on the 550 and configure the new Production environment as your go-live environment. When you go live, “unplug” the old box and “plug” in the new one. This might save you some money and will save you some pain.