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<font color="red">I would like to have responded sooner, but I have to take care of the people that pay my check first. </font>
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This is but one reason why I've been mostly inactive on JDEList for several months. I also enjoy beating dead horses...oh what fun that is.
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<font color="red">I read the pdf link you posted on JVM counters & "...that's nice...". How about some counters on the other software components and hardware? How about some real graphical tools to monitor these other counters real-time? The JVM is a one component of the web app server and web service stack; it isn't the only component. Performance can be affected by many other software components: EJB cache, JDBC connection pool cache, LDAP cache, security cache, HTTP thread pool, HTTP cache, etc. There are no tools real-time (or otherwise) in base OAS to monitor these components. A graph of the JVM is not sufficient to monitor performance. By comparison, look at the Tivoli performance tools in base WebSphere. The ones you can enable real-time to monitor these activities. </font>
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Thanks for clarifying
Yes, of course I gave only one example, JVM monitoring, which is no doubt one of the most common concerns for JDEList posters' JAS clients. More often that not, these are WAS users. The other functionality you mentioned is also covered.
For the purposes of my response, I'm not concerned with whether or not this particular functionality is available in the “base product”; I'm simply concerned with the fact that it is available. Please, have a look at another document. It details additional functionality contained within the same OEM framework. Yes, it is different than the way "base" WebLogic and IBM work (as you stated; I'm going to take your word on it this time.) I will not be getting into the merits of one solution from BEA or IBM versus Oracle. I am simply responding to your statements.
http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/oem/as_mgmt/wp_managing_oas_with_em.pdf
My hope for this post is not to win an argument; rather, I would like to see some of the regulars here begin to understand the concepts behind the Oracle Technology Foundation for JD Edwards EnterpriseOne. Perhaps they will be able to take from this enough knowledge to make or assist with an informed decision.
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<font color="red"> As far as LDAP is concerned, I've been there and done that. Up to and including OAS 10.1.2, there isn't direct support for Active Directory LDAP (or any other LDAP besides OID). You have to thru OID for LDAP support. We went thru the exercise of trying to get Active Directory integration with JDE 8.12. The only way it was supported was thru Oracle SSO and OID. And, to get this working you have to have a synchronization process set up between OID and Active Directory. The Oracle consultants we talked with said this was a significant project for companies with 1000+ accounts in AD. That is _NOT_ LDAP support. WebLogic and WebSphere provide for a direct LDAP connection and the directory is updatable from the app server. That is LDAP support.</font>
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I'm going to go ahead and cry "foul" on this one. You first stated concerns regarding "basic admin security, LDAP administration modules". Based on this, I can't in good conscience allow you to further qualify that with a "That is _NOT_ LDAP support" without objection. Yes, it is, it just doesn't meet up with your qualifications of what is and is not LDAP support. I reserve the right to wholly disagree with you on this.
I've been there and I'm still doing that. I've done the Oracle OID <- Active Directory integration for domains with thousands of user accounts and also multiple domains each with thousands of user accounts. My current installation is much smaller, but it works the same way, just less to 'bootstrap' and less complicated OU structure and associated map file. I've also done the Windows Native Authentication thing. None of this was very complicated to tell you the truth and I did not use any Oracle consulting. The documentation for this setup is quite good, actually, and there is a fair amount of excellent third party "real world" documentation available online. I'd be happy to share some links with anyone who may be interested.
On the other hand, if I had my druthers, I would of course prefer to bypass OID in favor of straight Active Directory support from the Oracle JAS implementation, but still use AD in conjunction with Oracle SSO with an alternate SSO server as a supported option. At this time it (native AD) is not available even with the 10.1.4.2 release, but Oracle is considering this as an option. I believe the primary reason they've not done this up to this point is that Oracle SSO and OID were developed from the ground up as a tightly integrated solution which leverages Oracle database technology. It is also a part of what is essentially Oracle's "turnkey" solution for the enterprise and/or departmental portal.
Other SSO solutions are available from Oracle which are meant for heterogeneous environments, though Oracle Denver has been somewhat late to the party for solutions such as OAM.
LDAP support can be configured directly in the JDE application, but this affects the JAS implementation in a positive way...the result is an effective "Single Sign-On" solution. The LDAP support I've mentioned includes native Active Directory. This functionality has been available since EnterpriseOne 8.11, which also happens to be the first release which eliminates the fat client as a supported user interface in favor of JAS. My opinion is this resolves some of the deficiencies, perceived or otherwise, of the Oracle SSO and OID solution. I've not done this (yet), so I can't speak to any technical challenges involved in getting it up and running. Yes, it is still a "single-sign on" solution, but not in what may now be the commonly accepted sense of of the term.
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<font color="red"> As far as clustering is concerned, my experience has been that if the app server doesn't support a replicated, serializable session with session failover to other cluster members, then it is not clustered. Clustering is more than distributed deployment and replicated configuration. OAS 10.1.3 has these capabilities. Previous releases did not have this capability. WLS and WebSphere had these features in early releases. </font>
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OAS 10.1.3 is now supported by both Tools 8.96 Update 3 (8.96.3.0) and Tools 8.97.
http://www.peoplesoft.com/corp/en/doc_archive/pub_library/cc_home/15FEB2008_e1update896.jsp
So, in terms of speaking about the here and now, which I am and have been doing, it is irrelevant what features were or were not available or fully functional in previous releases when comparing to a product not at all supported by EnterpriseOne at this point in time. To continue down this path with more comments is to spark a completely rhetorical argument.
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<font color="red">As I have said in previous posts, Siebel CRM and BI are not anything like web app servers in terms of software development and licensing. So I don't see how it applies to the original posters short-term choice of web app servers. </font>
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My basis for using the Siebel acquisition example for comparison purposes is twofold; First, it is an example of software Oracle obtained via an acquisition which was then elevated into the "high-end" offering from Oracle, superseding the previous Oracle offering. Second, it is important to view these acquisitions from the business perspective, perhaps more so than the technology.
Siebel Business Analytics technology (I am not referring to the "Business Intelligence Applications" apps) was so much better than their incumbent offering (Oracle BI Discoverer, etc.) it made no sense to keep it either behind or on par with Discoverer from a sales and marketing perspective. The result is OBIEE. WebLogic vs. OAS, in my opinion, is a different story. Some analysts think it is all about the revenue stream for support and maintenance; others think its all about WebLogic, while others still consider it an SOA push. We should also not forget the BEA portal solution which I mentioned is the famed Plumtree Portal.
I am leaning towards agreeing with some of what you said in terms of technology being culled from both products (OAS / WebLogic) such that the next release of Oracle Fusion Middleware will be a superset of the current separately available products. BEA could also be featured. Nothing is for certain. I don't think we'll see that in the 11g time frame (11g has been in development far too long, by my estimation). Perhaps a .5 release or version 12 will start to show some of the benefits of the BEA acquisition, but I'm the first to admit this is a fools game of speculation.
Kindest regards,
Charles
P.S.
I noticed you went over three and a half years between posts (May 2003 - December 2007) with your 'jdel6654' id. Perhaps you were working on one bear of a project.
...no response necessary.
You're obviously an intelligent person, which is why I don't mind having this debate in a public forum with an "anonymous" and relatively infrequent poster, however off topic it may be, as we know the original poster was speaking to either OAS or WAS. As they say, "it is what it is" and I'm about as transparent as I can be with my opinions.
Please don't perceive my previous comment as a knock to you in terms of public versus anonymous; I am sticking my neck out with my public face on (as hard to look at as my face may be)...and each is entitled to their own opinion in this forum.
I prefer to state what I believe are facts and let whatever amount of bias I may have be accounted for by my full disclosure of personal preference and that which I am responsible for in a production environment, some of which may be directly or indirectly influenced by business needs.
Also, as far as the JD Edwards client base is concerned, OAS has the distinct advantage of being one of two supported JAS server platforms.
I'm usually for "whatever works" provided it is not too terribly expensive, cumbersome or both. I don't consider the Fusion Middleware stack to be either; in the case of OAS, I'd like to state my preference for OAS over WAS based on a number of factors which I will resolve not to list in their entirety as this post is already far too long.