Half - Life of JDE

Re: RE: RE: Half - Life of JDE

[ QUOTE ]

Have you tried working with the Fusion Muddleware adapters yet? We bought them as a replacement for our aging copy of webmethods. So far we have completed one whole project with Fusion adapters. The other 250 interfaces (no, I'm not exagerating) are still on webmethods. The current version of Fusion muddleware is still kludgy at best.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup. Its all very new. You should have expected that. Is it more kludgier than XPi ? Hopefully not ! Fusion Middleware IS the future, however, and Oracle had better get it all working - otherwise we're all going to be jumping on yet another product when it appears in the marketplace !

There is a risk to what I'm saying. The risk is that Oracle needs to get their underlying technical architecture solid. They have a pretty good track record for doing that in the past - but we'll have to see what happens in the future.
 
RE: RE: RE: Half - Life of JDE

I think Fusion will start seeing some major JDE clients migrate that way in
2015. So 2019 is too soon to give up on all support for JDE from Oracle.
How about 2025 for the end of JDE as a supported product by Oracle? I'm in.
(And per incident support fees with being charged directly for 'opportunity'
fixes doesn't count as real support.)

Andy
 
Andy=2C



I have heard all kind of stories. We have a client here in Richmond who is going back to World from XE. The bottom line do not lie in changing a custo mer loyality from one World to Oracle Ebiz. Bottom line lies in how to deli ver economically whille increasing marketshare. By killing their own produ cts as JDE and Peoplesoft=2C they will create a vaccum that SAP and Microso ft would love to fill.



ERP is a dead market. Its not going to get better unless they find some wa ys=2C where we can sell Demo Jr versions to current quickbooks owners. I a m sure Microsoft and Oracle are working on these.



Lets continue investing on JDE=2C its our investment of today that Oracle w ill find difficult to counter=2C as i said before =2C everything else is re placable.



Thanks

Devi








To: [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Subject: RE: RE: Half - Life of JDE
Date: Wed=2C 26 Aug 2009 14:59:44 -0500

How about we compromise and call it "radioactive half life"? But you have
to remember=2C I graduated from the George Bush School of Nucular Physics. So
who knows?

As far as all the posts supporting JDE living forever=2C let's be practical .
Oracle will slowly kill off JDE=2C PeopleSoft=2C Siebel=2C etc.=2C as soon as there
is enough functionality in the Fusion apps to convince major clients of
those product lines to make the move to Fusion. If it doesn't happen
quickly enough=2C Oracle will figure out ways to "encourage" that to happen
more quickly.

If you are 45 and over=2C you probably don't have a lot to worry about--I
think it will take 15-20 years for this to occur. But=2C I have heard from
reliable sources that in some geographies=2C Oracle sales people are trying to
sell Oracle's E-Business Suite to existing JDE clients. Tacky=2C if you ask
me.

I've had a great 20 year career with JD Edwards=2C and I've always thought the
software was the best--great functionality without a ton of complexity or
rigidity. But I don't think it will continue unabated for another 35 years.

Just my opinion=2C and everyone's opinion is just as valid. The proof is in
the numbers=2C but unfortunately=2C Oracle doesn't release enough data so w e can
verify whether or not the JDE client base is declining. My opinion is that
the number of clients worldwide is declining.

Andy
 
Many have good points ... I would like to ask somewhat rhetorically

- Rememeber when the AS/400 was going away because the RISC6000 was going to solve the worlds problems?

- Remember when PeopleSoft bought JDE and stated XE would be absorbed into Enterprise?

- Remember when Oracle bought PeopleSoft/JDE and EnterpriseOne was going to be absorbed in three years?


Yeah ... me too.
 
I just got off my time machine and concur. I also see Jdetips publishing s ome very encouraging tips :)



To: [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: RE: RE: Half - Life of JDE
Date: Wed=2C 26 Aug 2009 15:48:14 -0500


Quote:


....but I also wouldn't bet against Andy. Over time JDE will fade away. It will be interesting to how this all plays out.





Tell you what. I'll put my money where my mouth is. I'll bet $500 if Enterp riseOne is still a _marketed_ product in 2019 versus $500 from Greg and $50 0 from Andy. We'll start a pool. If you're in=2C we'll get someone to hold the bet.

By the way=2C if Oracle changes the NAME of the product=2C that doesn't mea n the product is dead - I'm betting that the underlying architecture will s till exist - ie=2C a product that is based on CNC technologies (OCM=2C OL =2C datasources=2C etc).

We should put together a "pool" - $500 per ticket one way or another=2C and whoever wins in 2019 wins a share of the winning side...place it in a CD =2C and that'll be quite a bit of cash to share !

I have a bit of a head start=2C because we already know that Xe is still su pported until 2013 legally - but we don't know what might happen 6 years af terwards !

Who is interested ?
Jon Steel EnterpriseOne Technical Specialist erpSOURCING LLC http://www.erp sourcing.com [email protected] 24/7 Assistance - (904) 382 5701
 
Re: RE: RE: Half - Life of JDE

[ QUOTE ]
Yup. Its all very new. You should have expected that. Is it more kludgier than XPi ? Hopefully not ! Fusion Middleware IS the future, however, and Oracle had better get it all working - otherwise we're all going to be jumping on yet another product when it appears in the marketplace !

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it kludgier than XPi? Heck yea. XPi is just a rebranded version of webmethods. We are still using that same version of webmethods to interface with JDE. It is a work horse. The 10.x version of Fusion Middleware is not cutting it. To install it, we have to triple the amount of hardware and databases that were originally speced out by Oracle. They told us it would work with SQL, it doesn't. We had to put in some extra Oracle database servers to support it. Oracle did not have anyone that knew how to install it, so we had to use a team of third party consultants. Once it was finnally installed, the first project that we used it for took substantially longer than expected and we stopped there. They noted a number of deficiencies with the middleware that Oracle promised to fix in a release that comes out in mid 2010. Of course the fact that they then went out and bought another app server during all of this didn't help. They have been focused on integrating that appserver into OAS before they go and fix the issues with the middleware app that rides on top of OAS. Ugh.

- Gregg
 
Re: RE: RE: Half - Life of JDE

[ QUOTE ]


Tell you what. I'll put my money where my mouth is. I'll bet $500 if EnterpriseOne is still a _marketed_ product in 2019 versus $500 from Greg and $500 from Andy. We'll start a pool. If you're in, we'll get someone to hold the bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

No bet Jon! To paraphrase a military expresion, I'm not a consultant, I work for a living. Maybe Andy will take you up on that bet....
 
RE: RE: RE: Half - Life of JDE

Gregg, is that payback for Praxair being on TomorrowNow support for three
years?

Andy
 
RE: RE: RE: Half - Life of JDE

Gregg, in this economy, most consultants would trade their income for your
stability, income, and benefits.
 
[ QUOTE ]
"Nucular"?! Andy!

NewKleeAR

Dateline 12/31/11: NewKleeAR Associates announces the purchase of Oracle World and E1 support products and client support contracts. Andy indicated "Bundled support will include lifetime support, software updates, live-instructor standard training and a periodic newletter capturing the essence of smart JDE use and best practices for all clients." Custom training will continue to be available.

He also indicated clients wishing to scrap their SAP installs for JDE would also be grandfathered into the program as a show of goodwill and to recognize smart client thinking.
laugh.gif
 
Re: RE: RE: Half - Life of JDE

That's wishful thinking.

JDE is not decaying, it's clearly improving. And the number of sites on JDE is growing too. We should be talking of "double-life" then, as in: "When do you expect the number of JDE sites to double?".

It may evolve. Although this would have nothing to do with what they dubbed confusion - that would have to be the next release of eBusiness. My guess is that they would keep the JDE name any way it evolves.
 
Re: RE: RE: RE: Half - Life of JDE

2025 is far too far away in the future. I'll be almost 60, and you'll be a LOT older if I remember...

What I stated was that in 2019 - 10 years from now, JDE would still be a MARKETED product, ie, one that you can still buy. If its a marketed product, then Oracle would be stating support until 2024 if they continue their 5 year cycle. Certainly, we'd know if EnterpriseOne is a SUPPORTED product in 2019 by 2014 (just 5 years from now) - but I'm going to put my money on a total outside bet, and say its not just being supported, but it'll actively be sold.

Now, thats a hell of a bet. Given the fact that 10 years ago (1999) - JDE had just released B733 Base - and lots of the customers back then were considering suing JDE and dumping the product to moving either to World or to other products ! It was certainly a LOT easier to think that as an independent company with 25 years of history, JDE was going to be around in 10 more years - but now, with JDE under Oracle, and your claimed Oracle Fusion Apps coming out in just a couple of years, do you believe Oracle will still be selling a "competing" product in 2019 ?

Place $500 each in a bank account, add compound interest, you could be walking away with $2000 to $3000 in 2019 from this bet....and still be "young" enough to enjoy it !

You game ? Any more takers ?

Here are some more predictions from my crystal ball.

In 2019, we'll be using either Google Chrome or Apple Macs, Windows machines will be fading somewhat

Linux will still be a 3rd place runner, or 4th place

Mobile Phones will be able to stream video live. iPhones or whatever they'll be called will have more than 1Tb of storage, and will be able to stream data at todays equivalent of T1 speeds (1500mb/s)

Nobody will use Hard Disks anymore. Every machine will use solid-state drives with no moving parts. Storage will be sized in exabytes. 10 terabyte solid-state drives will be the norm.

AMD and Intel will still be battling for supremacy. AMD will invent some sort of new technology that challenges Intel, and Intel will use illegal business practices to jump back into the lead again. We'll be using 64bit processors - but TRUE 64bit, as opposed to pseudo 64bit in todays architecture. We'll have 16 cores per processor as standard.

Operating systems will come with multi-threading architectures built into the OS. Developers will program for these "gatekeepers" - and literally, the more cores you throw at a machine, the faster it'll get.

More and more clusters.

We'll be connecting machines using 10Gb Ethernet (already out). 100Gb Ethernet will be expensive, and 1Tb ethernet will be in "experimental" stages.

100mpg vehicles will become available. We'll still need gasoline - but more people will be driving diesels. The biggest new industry over the past 10 years would have been carbon (green) accounting. EnterpriseOne would have a product for that, but it would have been introduced a little late to have cornered the market.

The US would be undertaking large-scale public transportation projects. Healthcare would still be an issue. Fairtax won't have been introduced, but would STILL be talked about.

I'll still be working on EnterpriseOne CNC projects.

Andy will still be publishing JDETips

Gregg will still be trying to upgrade to E1 9.0

smile.gif
 
Re: RE: RE: RE: Half - Life of JDE

I'd still bet on old good HDD's. I expect to see 200TB available by then (I needed one for years ;-).

And I'd think that the mainframish WEB client paradigm would once again give way to some new client/server/CNC reincarnation, resurrecting the Fat Client.

I would probably still be asking "What's Google Chrome?" then, as I am now, and Apple will be all but forgotten, the Atari way...

BTW, there could be 32-core CPU's available by then - my crystal ball wasn't very clear on that point ;-)

And of course, there will be almost twice as many JDE sites.
 
[ QUOTE ]

NewKleeAR

Dateline 12/31/11: NewKleeAR Associates announces the purchase of Oracle World and E1 support products and client support contracts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Andy! When you roll out that division, I want to come on board as your CTO, ok?
 
Xe to World conversion? I actually rejected that as a topic for a JDEtips
article recently. I didn't want to annoy Oracle with that topic. On the
other hand, maybe it is worth publishing.

ERP isn't dead, it just isn't sexy any more. Remember when Financials was
considered the "back office"? Now all of the core ERP system is considered
to be the back office. For a few years, and even now, the ERP vendors made
$ with customer and vendor facing apps like CRM, and SRM. The next wave
will be incorporating Web 2.0 features such as social networking,
collaboration, etc. The wave after that? I don't know, but the ERP vendors
are good at leveraging their marketing and development savvy.

Andy
 
Hi Grant,

You mean we can support E1 without cheating and giving out unauthorized
middleware patches? Tomorrow Now should have been so fortunate. Who's
lifetime? Mine or Jon's? And I'm not so sure about that "newsletter"
thing--how could anyone hope to exceed the content and quality of what
Oracle has done? With thousands, er hundreds, of JDE employees, hasn't
Oracle published every good idea about JDE that anyone could ever think of?

To this I would only add:

Dateline 1/1/12: NewKleeAR Associates announces the appointment of Jon Steel
as Vice-President, CNC services. Mr. Steel stated today "I am honored to be
a part of the Kleevolution of JD Edwards software and support. I've always
had the greatest respect for Andy, and our back and forth postings on
JDElist were purely a publicity stunt, designed to achieve market awareness.
We have succeeded in our ultimate goal: taking over all public discourse on
JD Edwards. Today E1, tomorrow World!" Klee stated "I also respect Jon's
opinions, and as our first act, we are going to compete as a team in the
JDE/SAP Smackdown Wrestlemania Tour, coming to a user group meeting in your
area soon."

Andy
 
Its all the same Andy. ERP is living on its dose of Botox these days. Comp anies are married to ERP software and have achieved the integration in form of one happy united family. We see some shake ups here and there when com panies merges ( remarriage) =2Ccompanies collapse and being taken over. Th e fortune list is all taken over by major ERP brands. The major problem of an ERP salesman is to get a new sale and thats not happening. Growing econ omies like china =2C india=2C far east are still not ready to shell out top dollars to ORACLE=2C JDE et all. They are relying on home grown ERPs and a rmy of software engineers help the cause. But if there is a traction somewh ere for the ERP companies as regards to new sale=2C it is coming from those market only.



There is big competition in the mid market and the top 2 (SAP and Oracle) i s facing fierce resistance from Dynamics=2C QAD=2C Syspro=2C everest=2C and thats the market where I am seeing emergence of OPEN SOURCE ERP.



Botox like BI=2C SRM =2C CRM will keep them young but will not stop from de caying. Hence my assumption that companies like ORACLE and SAP not disturb their market share by the greed of unifying product line or killing compet itive product. It is all about switching to the right hat at the right time and with manydifferent hats=2C and other sexier outfits in stock=2C ORacl e is much better placed than SAP as far as looking sexier goes.



One of my client recently moved to Quickbooks enterprise from JDE =2C what about that as a story Andy?

To: [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Half - Life of JDE
Date: Thu=2C 27 Aug 2009 07:43:59 -0500

Xe to World conversion? I actually rejected that as a topic for a JDEtips
article recently. I didn't want to annoy Oracle with that topic. On the
other hand=2C maybe it is worth publishing.

ERP isn't dead=2C it just isn't sexy any more. Remember when Financials was
considered the "back office"? Now all of the core ERP system is considered
to be the back office. For a few years=2C and even now=2C the ERP vendors m ade
$ with customer and vendor facing apps like CRM=2C and SRM. The next wave
will be incorporating Web 2.0 features such as social networking=2C
collaboration=2C etc. The wave after that? I don't know=2C but the ERP vend ors
are good at leveraging their marketing and development savvy.

Andy
 
Re: RE: RE: Half - Life of JDE

[ QUOTE ]

To install it, we have to triple the amount of hardware and databases that were originally speced out by Oracle. They told us it would work with SQL, it doesn't. We had to put in some extra Oracle database servers to support it. Oracle did not have anyone that knew how to install it, so we had to use a team of third party consultants.

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, you're not stating anything "new" or "different". Oracle does this as a standard practice. They are in it to sell as much of their product as possible - and if you choose to utilize Oracle Consulting, then in effect, you're just letting the wolf in through the door to spec out even more databases, technology and application servers. I'm not surprised.

I'm not surprised that Fusion Middleware is kludgy at the moment either. If the Middleware is that difficult to implement, imagine how bad Fusion Apps are going to be when they finally roll that stuff on TOP of the fusion middleware.

Although XPi has been terminated, there is NOTHING stopping a company from using a third party vendors middleware - such as Webmethods, MQ Series or Microsoft Biztalk (MSMQ). Fusion Middleware is supposed to provide the brokers for the apps, but the reality is that you're likely one of the first adopters, so you're likely writing the code or quality assuring the code for everyone else.

Welcome to a much more extended timeline for your implementation unfortunately.
 
Re: RE: Half - Life of JDE

[ QUOTE ]
And I'm not so sure about that "newsletter"
thing--how could anyone hope to exceed the content and quality of what
Oracle has done? With thousands, er hundreds, of JDE employees, hasn't
Oracle published every good idea about JDE that anyone could ever think of?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummmm.....I am not sure if you're being sarcastic - but aren't you the creator of "JDEtips"?! If the quote was true, wouldn't that cut into your business model somewhat ?

I think some of my own whitepapers have download counts that still exceed the number of downloads compared to the most downloaded JDE whitepapers on the Oracle Knowledge Kludgeon. I'm certain there are other whitepapers written by non-oracle employees that "everyone" has as part of their "bibles". Certainly JDE/Oracle create SOME good whitepapers, but they certainly don't know how to implement their own software worth a damn.

Heres a good argument for using Independents.

If you just looked at the total number of whitepaper knowledge out there, and chose your consulting resources based on the number of QUALITY whitepapers produced, I think you'd see the following order :

1. Independent Consultants (as a whole)
2. Oracle
3. Business Partners
4. Big-5

Apart from IBM (who have published Redbooks, but these are actually written by Oracle/JDE based employees) - has anyone EVER seen ANY whitepaper or best practice documentation from a Big-5 partner ? Given the number of implementations they supposedly do, there must be ONE out there - surely...
 
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