The 2008 Election thread....

OK - well, here we go. Just a week away now, and I thought it would be a cool idea to see what responses the JDE folks here have with regards to candidates. So, what candidate are do YOU support ? Even if you're not a US Citizen, feel free to cast a vote in this little poll !

I saw this little nugget in one blog - so, although it IS an opinion, its a nice little tidbit. Perhaps you have something related to offshoring, Accounting practices, IT or Telecommunications that a candidate has stated ?

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As we roll toward the Presidential election next month, it's becoming increasingly clear that Obama is on the side of American workers whereas McCain supports offshoring. McCain's record indicates that he supports giving tax breaks to companies that ship their jobs overseas. On the other hand, Obama seems to be in touch with the angst of American workers, with quotes like the following during a gathering of machinists and aerospace workers.

I stand with you because what you're fighting for isn't unreasonable -- what you're fighting for is a fair shot at the American dream... It's the idea that your government shouldn't stand idly by while your job is shipped overseas.

Obama obviously gets it. McCain doesn't.


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Well Jon, its obvious which way YOU lean

Pity I can't vote (or lucky, I guess, depending on your view) !

They don't let the certifiably insane vote anymore

(actually its because I'm a Brit, but same difference...)

Jon,

This is not an appropriate forum for a political debate. Let's stick to Windows vs AS400 debates on this forum, ok?

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This is not an appropriate forum for a political debate.

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Actually, I disagree. This is the "Off Topic" forum, so I believe any sort of commentary can be made here, providing it isn't derogatory.

Secondly, given the number of companies that have offshored their development and consulting within ERP projects, I think its interesting to see the two political camps have completely different opinions on how this should be handled in the future. This is certainly a "hot topic" amongst CIO/CFO level.

HOWEVER

I think that you bring up a very good point. Perhaps there should be a comparison between the electoral candidates and Microsoft/IBM ?

OK. Here we go...Is it more important to listen to the quote by Obama in this thread or consider the fact that he will raise taxes on all companies which have the size (and therefore option) to move operations offshore?

While campaign quotes are nice, making it more expensive (as Democrats like to do -- example "profit penalty" taxes on oil companies) to do business in America will only add incentive to move off-shore.

I actually tend to agree with Democratic positions on most issues, however, the only tool in the Democratic party toolbox seems to be raising taxes to pay for programs which only harms the economy. Example: Instead of raising taxes on big oil, push through serious legislation about emissions and fuel efficieny like California did.

my 2 cents.

Hey, it's only allowing me to vote once! How is that fair? I'm contacting ACORN to report this.

On behalf of Mickey Mouse and the Dallas Cowboy's Defensive Line,

Max

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Perhaps you have something related to offshoring, Accounting practices, IT or Telecommunications that a candidate has stated ?

A Disgusted American worker and voter,
As we roll toward the Presidential election next month, it's becoming increasingly clear that Obama is on the side of American workers whereas McCain supports offshoring. McCain's record indicates that he supports giving tax breaks to companies that ship their jobs overseas. On the other hand, Obama seems to be in touch with the angst of American workers, with quotes like the following during a gathering of machinists and aerospace workers.

I stand with you because what you're fighting for isn't unreasonable -- what you're fighting for is a fair shot at the American dream... It's the idea that your government shouldn't stand idly by while your job is shipped overseas.

Obama obviously gets it. McCain doesn't.
/quote]


I'll weigh in with my opinion:
<font color="red"> BOTH candidates support increases in the H-1B visa quota. </font>

They are either delusional, or (more likely) the ITAA and other corporate American lobbies ( such as the 1-man "foundation" run by Stuart Anderson ) have influenced them with their cries of {non-existent} high-tech worker shortages.

You may not be thinking of the same Barack Obama that I am...both he and McCain have consistently voted in favor of amnesties and increases in guest worker visas.

By the way, did you know that the H-1B visa actually facilitates the offshoring of American jobs? Kamal Nath, the Indian Minister of Commerce, calls the H-1B the "outsourcing visa".

A Disgusted American worker and voter,

Niccolò Machiavelli writes: "it is best to be both feared and loved; however, if one cannot be both it is better to be feared than loved."

Polito reports that foreign leaders are enambored with Obama http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/12061.html. "Leaders throughout the Middle East and Europe seemed to fawn over Obama — expressing the sort of acute admiration that one has for another, as though wishing to be him.

“Of course it is not up to the French to pick the next president of the United States, whomever that person may be. We will work with him happily and gladly," Sarkozy told reporters Friday. "But I am especially happy to be meeting with the senator.”

For my money - I would rather have our allies and our enemys fear our next president rather than fawn over him. I am in favor of electing a Capitalist President, not a Socialist who wants to "spread the wealth."

Ignoring the candidates in this equation, wouldn't you rather have the next president admired and respected (or at least respected), rather than feared? The rest of the world feared Stalin and Hitler -- is that really the kind of president you want?

Now, FWIW, the only socialist on the ballot is the guy running for the (Socialist Party). Check it out, and you'll see what socialism really is, not the spin BS put on that you've been fed by the McCain campaign. The two major candidates both represent capitalism. You'd think a guy running for president would know the difference between capitalism and socialism. Guess not.

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I'll weigh in with my opinion:
<font color="red"> BOTH candidates support increases in the H-1B visa quota. </font>


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I support the H-1B visa program. I'm a product of the program myself, and I personally don't view the H-1B visa program as the same as offshoring. Outsourcing is not Offshoring. Let me explain my view here.

Offshoring is a contract between a US company and a foreign company. The money gets paid by the US company to the foreign company (eg, an Indian consulting corporation) - and the foreign company spends the money on personnel resources in the foreign country (eg, helpdesk support in India).

The cost savings here are dramatic - for a helpdesk person, for example, the US company could be paying under minimum wage - which might be acceptable income in India or China.

The money in this situation gets thrown to the foreign country, and never returns. Not one cent.

Outsourcing, however, is where a US company hires another company, whether foreign or domestic, to provide for on-site resources.

In this situation, an Indian company spends money on, say, indian resources - who apply for an H-1B visa. The Indian resources move to the US - and shacks up in low cost housing, etc etc. They take a salary that might be viewed as very low for the position - but it still must be higher than minimum wage since they are living in the US.

Now, in this situation, the company is paying the Indian company - but the MAJORITY of the money is coming BACK into the US. The worker is a hard-working individual living in the US, paying domestic taxes and being (generally) law abiding citizens.

This country has been built on the shoulders of immigrant workers and capitalist competition. Certainly there are illegal immigrant workers - which is another situation entirely - but the H-1B visa program is for legal workers which encourages competition in the workforce.

The H-1B visa program is NOT supposed to replace a position which an American worker is available for. However, because there are tax breaks for companies to send money in the first place to Offshore companies, then many of those companies, being completely unregulated, take advantage and abuse the H-1B system by hiring personnel without looking for a US worker first (which is a requirement).

Again, I initially moved to the US with JDE under the H-1B visa program from the UK - I had specific skills that JDE could not source internally within the US, and it took MONTHS to get the visa approved (back in 1997). JDE also had to show that they advertised and attempted to hire for the position domestically in the US for at least several months beforehand.

So, I don't blame the workers hired under the H-1B program - I feel they are beneficial to the US workforce, and are a very important contribution to the US society. It is offshoring - the positioning of development resources and enabling corporations to make larger profits from underpaid workers in bad conditions - that I worry and am concerned about.

The kind of president I want is a Teddy Roosevelt - "walk softly and carry a BIG stick"!

Just Kidding.

I had a dream.
A dream of a politician who is is honest, who cares more about principles then power or winning, who will choose "doing the right thing" over expediency. A dream of a man (or woman) of character. A person who believes that "Government is merely an attempt to express the conscience of everybody, the average conscience of the nation, in the rules that everybody is commanded to obey. That is all it is."

Then I woke up

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a politician who is is honest, who cares more about principles then power or winning, who will choose "doing the right thing" over expediency.

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I think that there are people that start out in politics as genuinely caring about principles over winning or power - but unfortunately the winners are often those that take the risks and sweep aside the "honest" ones.

Interesting to see that troopergate came out with their results just one day before the election...

... Timothy Petumenos, an Anchorage lawyer, conducted the investigation. He was hired as independent counsel for the Personnel Board to examine several complaints against Palin.

The Troopergate matter became sharply politicized after Palin joined the ticket of Republican presidential candidate John McCain in late August.

Palin, after first promising to cooperate, never gave a statement to the special counsel hired by the legislature, but she gave three hours of sworn testimony to Petumenos.

As for the last-minute timing - Petumenos gave out his report hours before the polls opened on Palin's bid to become vice president - the investigator said it wasn't ready until now.

"If you think this is being done to favor the governor politically, it certainly would have been much more favorable for her to receive this days before now," Petumenos said.

Well, it was an amazing night. The Poll here seemed to reflect the result - although a little smaller than the actual popular vote !

Lets see how our industry is affected by the new administration. It is going to be an exciting change, no matter what happens.

Congrats to the Obama supporters, your candidate racked up an impressive electoral college margin. Two big winners in this election:

1) Proponents of raising money over the internet
2) The Cast and Crew of Saturday Night Live

The people running Obama's campaign did an impressive job of using new media to raise money and awareness. In this Conservative's opinion, the McCain team ran a crummy campaign. The better team won.

The folks at SNL did a great job of poking fun at both candidates. Quite frankly, they were WAY more fair and balanced than any of the other media outlets.

Now as the leadership of the US takes a sharp turn to the left, it will be interesting to see how they manage the economy and the other challenges ahead.

I'm Gregg Larkin, and I approve of this message.

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your candidate racked up an impressive electoral college margin

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Greg

He also racked up the popular vote by a huge percentage margin....thought I'd throw that one out there.

And he isn't really "your candidate". He should be referred to as "our President Elect"....

Well, the votes came in at the end of the election - and interestingly enough, the JDEList minority voters on this little poll pretty much reflected the rest of the US popular votes - 11 for Obama, 7 for McCain with a 3 point uncertainty.

Now, in a year, I'll have to ask again who people wish they had voted for ....!