iSeries or Linux

I agree with Mr. Jones, and think his advice should be followed. What I get the impression of is that you're one of the "top" people in your company. If that's the case, time spent learning a new system is time not spent helping your company grow. Same about money spent hiring support and admins. Spend your time getting a solid setup that you can hit the ground running with while meeting the needs of your company at the same time. When you have spare time in your days, start thinking about the future and be prepared so that when your company expands, you and your department are ready.

The only thing I disagree with Mr. Jones on is the multi-box setup. Not because it would bog down the server, but for safety. I've come from a background with unix servers in a university environment, and with the company I work (much larger than the one you describe, so I can't recommend your environment), I've learned a valuable lesson about separating your data.

You will undoubtedly hire more developers in the future and do some development work on your own. No matter what you do to train someone, or what precautions you take, accidents happen. Developers might have to change data to test, and you want to make certain they don't accidentally change the wrong data because the data is too "close". The same would go for your PD programs as well. Further, what if your physical machine goes down? I don't know if your company could handle being offline in the time it takes to get the machine back in operation, but if it can't, you can always use the DV/PY (PrototYpe) machine to work in the meantime.

The only reasons I'd recommend going two-machine is for those security reasons, but if you can handle those with one machine, by all means do so. Other than that, follow the above advice.
 
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Anyway, given that it sounds like its a one man operation at present, the overriding principle still needs to be K.I.S.S.

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Larry, sure l haven't met you
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Thanks for all the responses guys...much appreciate it!!! C6 Vette would suffice
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I don't have an aversion to Wintel platforms but what l don't like are the pricing and and security issues that come with this package (after spending my IT life teaking this platform).Add to this that the spiralling resource hogs of a Win2003 platform (god knows what 2008 will be like) plus a 64 bit version to overcome 4Gb mem limitations, l'm very particular when it comes to a database platform vs a network/fileserver platform.

I suppose l should clarify a few issues that have arisen in this discussion:
Company background: Cosmetic manufacturer of 80 years in both contract, private branding and our own products with, atm, 50 users/25 concurrent. They have utilised an SSA BPCS MRP system that born in 1985 and in most case, is still stuck in that era along with many of this company's practices - both has hindered the growth of the business due to the lack of or inability of data analysis.
Database: JDE will be on an Oracle DB as it's free with JDE E1 due to some promotion we may get here in Australia(?), and l prefer it to be on that database as l have had some experience in Oracle SQL.
Development: I don't see this organization developing JDE internally in the next 2-3 years as this company has had a bad history. Haphazard modifications of it's BPCS system on the whim of senior managers advice has seen a logical system create illogical outcomes. That being said, as a cosmetics manufacturer, there will be modules that we may have to develop/re-engineer as the business becomes comfortable with JDE processes but the greater possibility is utilising the web as a medium for a customers and staff to quickly access JDE.
Linux/iSeries Comfort: At this stage, and Larry correctly picked up, l'm a one-man show. I will be looking, in the early years of this system, to contract out the administration and tuning of these servers out with the JDE/Oracle side (contracted out to our implementators who are JDE/Oracle partners). That being said, l'm looking at introducing a junior who l can train to start administrating the server platform - iSeries demands $$ and are limited whilst Linux is being taught at university level and a junior would be easier to mold - it's no use me going becoming an Oracle or iSeries DBA if l don't have the time to play!!!
JDE Architecture: Whilst part of me favor a multi-instance on one server approach, l only do this from a cost point of view as many have said that an iSeries is robust enough to handle multi-instance rather than an Intel. I do heavily favor, and correct me if l'm wrong, 1x Prod server, 1x Test/Dev Server, 1xDeployment server approach - there lies my indecision, Intel solution will deliver this but similar iSeries solution comes at a high price.
Hardware: I don't see this as a large issue as hardware cost is pretty negligible in today's age but the price differentiation between an iSeries server vs an Intel is still are large gulf.
Redundancy: At this stage, l would be incorporating a VMWare server that would be able to cut across in seconds should either solution fail - again, this becomes a factor in hiring people.

I guess the bottom line that l should have asked, if you were a one man show, what server platform (given that Oracle DB is incorporated with the purchase of JDE) would run considering you are development/formulating the businesses IT strategy at the same time justifying expanding from a one-man show to a small department?

LoL..there are some days when being a network engineer looked good
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Jay

PS: Thanks to all for the very qualified advice - think l made the right choice to seek info/advice on JDE.
 
Gawd...I tried and tried to keep out of this flame war, but they keep bringing me back in!

First...what you get for "free"...yes, red stack comes with the license to run Oracle DB and software, but blue stack comes with the license and software to run DB2 UDB, or obviously DB2/400 if you already have an System i. So the "free" Oracle is moot, you get a "free" DB if you choose anything other than SQL Server. The "free" software also has nothing to do with where the company is...you choose blue or red stack, and you get the DB(s) that come with it...Australia, US, EU, etc..

DB administration...in order of ease...System i, SQL, Oracle, DB2/UDB in my estimation. I don't know of any shops that have a System i/iSeries/AS/400 DBA, because you really don't need one (for E1 purposes). SQL Server is next as far as ease of admin. Oracle usually requires some expertise or a DBA if the DB is large or complicated. DB2/UDB is just not widely used as a percentage of E1 installations.

I think you are saying over and over again what many of the respected peeps here (ALT, Sr. Larkin, etc..) have said. The choice should be based on skill set and business needs. 25 - 50 users is a light load for any platform. WinTEL would be fine, Unix/Linux would be fine, Series I would be fine. It's just a matter of REALLY looking at costs. Many people "poo-poo" the up front costs of System I, but fail to realize that a properly sized system, compared to any other platform, depreciated over 5 business years (either purchase or lease), when factoring in admin costs, backup, uptime, maintenance, etc., is pretty much the same as the other platforms. Does this mean System I is best, no. It depends on expertise in house (or willing to pay for) and business needs.

Some companies are "IBM" shops, and contractual obligations would be hard/costly to break. Especially those that already have a System I in house, it may make business sense to stick with it. But if you have the chance to pick your platform, again with only 25 - 50 users, I'm not sure System I would be the ideal choice.

As you seem to imply, the administration will be handled by yourself (or one person). A company that wishes to get up and running quickly would do best by choosing a platform that the one person is comfy with. Oracle DB on WinTEL is actually a wise choice in the big picture, as I think most in the E1 arena see that Oracle is moving things towards Oracle branded apps and tie ins, as one would expect. Do I see support for System I going away for E1 soon, absolutely not. SQL Server, most definitely not in the short term, no, but probably more likely to lose support before System I.

The big and small of it is, any platform, correctly sized and managed correctly, is fine for E1...none is "better" or "worse" than the others. For 25 - 50 users, with your comfort with Oracle DB's...and if you have no Series I experience in house or existing Series I hardware to support...a Unix/Linux or WinTEL solution with Oracle DB would probably be best.

I hate that all of these smart folks on this BB have to flame every time a platform question comes up. I'm a Series I fanatic...but I'm smart enough to know that for E1, there is no "best" platform hands down...it's dependent on the money available to spend and the expertise available to take care of the system.

I know...this will continue the flames...but I hope we someday stop getting all hot and bothered on this helpful forum everytime someone asks the dreaded "platform vs. platform" question.

Click your lighters now ladies and gents...
 
Jcento -

First of all, welcome to JDElist. You made quite a splash on your first post. In post number two, you threw out an interesting additional fact. If you are a one man show, taking on JDE is a monumental task.

You could go a different direction for the first few years - outsource it. There are a few companies out there that can host your whole environment. That will save on servers, IT staff and a whole lot more. Over time, as the company gains more experience, you could pull that back in house. Just don't sign a contract with too long of a commitment to the vendor. If you go that route, then this conversation goes a whole different direction. Who cares what the OS, database, and platforms are. JDE is just a service. You are in a position to consider that as one of your options. I'm sure that some of the outhosting vendor guys have either picked up this, or will after I press the enter key.

And Stoogie, thanks for the compliment!

Gregg
 
Jim,

what flame war? I've just seen people voice different opinions, nobody has used "Jane you ignorant slut" type language. This has just been a good exchange of opinions, no insults or platform denigration that I've noticed.

Aside from that - great post!
 
Well, given your post, and a lot more information - which platform are you most comfortable with ?

It seems as if you're trying to save a few thousand dollars on your database software, as opposed to spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on your EnterpriseOne solution. The math doesn't always make sense.

Don't go to a platform because its "cheaper" than another. Again, as I reiterated, go to a platform because you're comfortable with it. I'm not sure about your "having to go 64bit" issue - all other platforms mentioned (Linux/Unix/AS/400) are already 64bit - Intel/AMD was just behind the times. I'm really unsure why you think you need huge amounts of memory, when you've already stated your user base is no larger than 50 users (but please remember, many customers are running 500 users+ with servers with 4-8Gb on SQL).

As for DB2 - its a great platform. Disk is the most expensive under AS/400 compared to other platforms - but, as people have already commented - its a relatively easy platform to manage (once you have the expertise) and can run very reliably. I like the 400 and am constantly amazed at how IBM keeps that platform somewhat competitive.

Linux is just Unix on Intel/AMD processors. Really, you're asking about Oracle on Intel. I know I would keep away from Oracle on Windows - but under Linux or Unix, its a fantastic database. Its just very expensive to maintain - and requires quite a bit of management - but it DOES provide phenomenal scalability.

So, as you'll come to understand, us CNC people love all the database and OS platform types. Some people (customers) are usually more bigoted over one platform compared to another. But don't try and second guess what Oracle is "going to do". DB2/400 and SQL Server combined make up more than 90% of the customers - they're not going to drop either solution any time soon. The only one I would certainly keep away from is UDB - it has the smallest user group, and is most likely to be dropped as a platform since Oracle perceives it as a competitor.
 
Jay,

I think you may have missed one point, which is that the Oracle database is not available on the iSeries platform. That may affect your thinking somewhat.

Cheers,
 
Isn't it possible to create a Linux/AIX partition on an iSeries, and run Oracle in that partition?
 
Yes Bill, I believe it is. Actually, the "System i" and "System p" names are no more, and IBM has finally converged the two development units into one "POWER Systems" family. It is the exact same hardware whether you are running "i" on POWER, AIX or Linux. Oracle will live quite happily in that environment.
 
Yes Bill...the System I is the best platform of all...but I didn't want to get into that. Obviously, even if you are running that OS on a partition, you need to have System I expertise.

But dang...thanks for mentioning that. I had to bite my tongue when the many said Oracle DB couldn't be run on a Series I...not true any more.

Ok...Quarkie and Larkin and all...I AM a big black or white box man! LOL
 
I was thinking the same thing. There are some subtle and some not so subtle patterns on this list. For instance, someone, often a newbie or less active user/lurker on the list, posts a question about hardware options and the first response tends to be from "Frequent Poster X" who uses some variation of "now I don't want to start a flame war, but..."

I could go on about the things about this list that make me laugh, but I'll need thicker skin to survive that "discussion".
 
I can't believe I'm laughing out loud at this thread. The weird part is, I'm not even sure what it is I find so funny. Linux? iSeries? Oracle? AIX?

The nearby cube dwellers must think I forgot to take my meds.
 
I think it was actually PeopleSoft EnterpriseOne 8.9 SP1 with Update 0. Up in flames it went.
 
Yes, it is possible to install linux on an iSeries.

But I wouldn't recommend it ! IBM has also "converged" their architecture into the "Power 5" system - which is actually a blade system which can handle the different configurations of AS/400, Intel and RS6000 servers.
 
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IBM has also "converged" their architecture into the "Power 5" system - which is actually a blade system which can handle the different configurations of AS/400, Intel and RS6000 servers

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They've got a heck of a lot more than blades to handle multi OS consolidation on the POWER platform. The fun really starts with the "Power 6" system line. PowerVM virtualization on blades to the 520 all the way up to the 595s.

IBM i (formerly OS/400, etc.) is now but one of several OS options on the same hardware platform. You get what you pay for, and in the case of i, you do pay quite a bit.
 
What have I started
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I agree this whole thread can degenerate into a flaming war but l like that passion.

From the comments, I'll probably head down the Intel/Linux path considering my plan with firewalls and web servers thus justifying my long term plans for ever expanding department (to 2 lol). So Jon, scalability jolted me to reality!!!

Yes, JDE will be a monumental task but after exploring what SAP, MS Nav and other ERP systems, JDE E1 was streets ahead in terms of how it presents it's data (now that could be debated by you guys).

I guess l too get caught up in thinking this company l work for is as large than the previous ones (250+) so 50 to even 100 users should be easy
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Anyway, thanks to all who has contributed and l'm sure you will hear from me as l try and project manage this implementation of JDE to our organisation and then support it..oh didn't l tell you that l also so somersaults
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Jay
 
Jay,

10 years ago we chose JDE in large part because of "how it presents it's data" to the end user. Its interesting and encouraging to hear from someone who has recently shopped the ERP market that its still superior in that respect today.

Good Luck and much fun with your implementation!
 
Thanks Larry...l just love the marketing that comes with all the other ERP systems but after viewing E1, it's much more powerful (IMO) then the other systems out there, much more advanced and real web browsable menu's.
I'm having a chat with our implementation partners so l'll keep the list up to date as to the hardware that this will live on.

Cheers again
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