Rumors

Hello list!
Long time lurker, first time poster.
There are a couple of situations and rumors flying around that I wanted to see if anyone else had experienced.
1. A buddy of mine, an IS director for a World company received a call from a business partner where he was told that if they did not start their migration to OneWorld by March 31st, that they would have to pay for OneWorld as if they were a new customer. Needless to say, he was a bit miffed.
2. Heard a rumor around from different companies, and I have to say that I have actually experienced a very close situation myself. It is that JDE is making a concerted effort to squash all independent consulting activity in the marketplace to boost rates back up. They are going to do this by telling customers that if they use anyone other than JDE or a business partner to work on their system, that their warranty will be invalidated. Again, I have experienced these tactics by a client manager already.

Is this how things are panning out? Reverting to scare tactics to sell services? I know that the latter would be a HUGE mistake to continue with legally, but maybe it is just a coincidence of the rumor matching my experience.

I don't want to get everyones hackles raised, but this has been eating away at me for a while, and this is the only truly open unbiased forum where I can voice my concerns.

Would love to hear from anyone that can substantiate or quash this ugly thing!

Tom Barrachet

Sorry - haven't got my configuration yet!

Warranty? ... this software comes with a Warranty!?

Larry Jones
[email protected]
OneWorld XE, SP 15.1
HPUX 11, Oracle SE 8.1.6
Mfg, Distribution, Financials

Biggest laugh I have had all day!



Ken

XE SP 16
Win2000/Oracle 8.1.6.

Great one, Larry!

B733.2, SP 15, Oracle 8.1.6, HP 9000
Win2K, Citrix 1.8, NFuse

Sure it does... It warranties your patience lost.. ;?)

OW B73.3.2 SP 16.1 / NT 4.0 Sp 6a/ SQL 7.0 (XE and Win2000 soon)

Greetings.
S.E. Ricardo Paz Castanon
Systems Chief
Comercial de Herramientas S.a de C.v.
+52(81) 8369-35-35 ext. 286
[email protected]
www.cohesa.com

Hi Tom,
Nice to see your first post, finally! I was very close to start wondering WHEN were you going to do it. Anyway, later is way better than never
In the mean time, I am really biased by the ... hum ... Xe Forum you used to propagate such rumors; was it not supposed to be the General one?
In other words, I'm substantiating/quashing ALL rumors (able to panicate some sensible hearted Listers) that have no base; are you (or THE source, whichever that might be) able to provide the tiniest bit of proof, just for the record? I thought not, also.
No offense taken, thank you.
Adrian Chimirel
PS1 I would start reading the stories invented upon Mark Twain's death, and thus ignore ALL the grossfully exagerated ones, OK?
PS2 A buddy of mine told me HE WAS TOLD THAT Bill Gates is selling ALL his Microsoft shares. But he's just an Oracle ... Developer ... hahaha, that's a good one!


Xe U3 SP17, Oracle 806, Citrix, HTML, FormScape 2.1 Ent RS/6000, AIX 4.2, Dep NT4

Hi folks,
I have been around for along time with JDE. Worked for many partners and ran a few shops. I take a break from working right now an plan on going back to work later this year.
What you have said is fact in both cases. JDE has informed some clients that at some point if they do not go to OW they will pay a premium to get there. May be licened $ or things like migration tools at a huge cost(can't say more). As for the other JDE is now and will in the future do everything they can to keep you from using anyone but a BP or them. I had heard last year that they were going to change to warrantee to help this.

I don't know about future policy changes at JDE, but currently..don't
you already have to use a JDE consultant or a business partner? If you
don't you loose support, or get the 'not our problem' response? If you
really consider it, it makes sense on both the client and JDE side. JDE
is trying to ensure that a consultant who works on JDE is certified, or
at least knows something about the software, therefore they are either a
BP or a JDE consultant themselves..this allows them to ensure at least
to some extent, that quality consultants are going to clients...
From the client side, you are trying to get assurance that you have
someone who knows something about the software. You can go to a licensed
doctor, or someone who just puts a shingle out and calls himself a
doctor..sure there are quacks as well, but I would bet my life on the
odds that a licensed doctor will take better care of me than someone
renting office space in the mall.
Has anyone used an independent (ie, not JDE or a BP) and then had
problems with getting support?

John






Xe, Update2, SP16
NT/SP6a, SQL7/SP3, WTS/Metaframe 1.8

Re: RE: Rumors

Why doesn't JD Edwards just assign a CNC and an Application Analyst automatically to an account?
Then just like your health insurance you would have a primary care physician.
Have any of you priced JDE weekend support?
At $4,500.00(US) we could affort to have 3 CNC consultants fly in, feed them, rent them cars, and pick up their hotels and still have money left over.


We have paid for this in the past, for a weekend upgrade and had to call Europe and Singapore for support. A few hours later we are told we would have to call Denver Monday morning.

---Rant mode off -----

*JDE CNC, CMA
AS400@V4R5, Xe SP16.1 XU3/A73 CUME11, CoExist, NT4.0 (SP6a), NT4.0 Citrix, Win2k Citrix XPe
500 mixed clients

Hello list.

I think the second rumor is

Hi Tom

Yes - I have heard both "rumours". In fact, both are completely illegal practices for a Software Company - and could land JDE in court if they originate from JDE in my opinion.

JDE BP's will use scare tactics such as rumour 1 to help sell services - don't believe it. If a customer is up-to-date on maintenance, then their license agreement will allow them to upgrade from World to OneWorld for no software charge. However - the cost to perform the upgrade is still significant, since Consulting charges apply - either from a "Business partner" or JDE (or independents such as myself !)

Rumour 2 is also correct - JDE are agressively getting involved with services once again, and the way they compete with qualified independents is by "invalidating" your warranty (or at least threatening to do it). I have heard of one incident that occurred that landed JDE in an expensive settlement in Europe that has similar bearings on this rumour - but this is an illegal practice for a software company. Again - if you are paid up to date for your software - you should be able to hire whoever you want to maintain it.

JDE shouldn't make any distinction, by the way, between a contractor and a company employee - both work for the customer - so this second rumour should also cover all employees !

My opinion is that if you are scared of losing support with JDE - then go to either JDE for your consulancy work (and pay $250+ per hour) - or to a Business Partner (and get some green hack that's placed there purely to bring more business into your company) - otherwise if you want a successful, reliable implementation, then go with an experienced individual who works for YOUR company, and charges a lot less for the same work.

Gets my hackles up too !

All opinions expressed here are NOT the view of current/ex employers.

Jon Steel
Xe Upgrade Specialist
erpSOURCING LLC

ERP Sourcing
http://www.erpsourcing.com
[email protected]

What is the difference between hiring a fulltime employee to support your software and hiring an independent contractor to do the same thing? Will JD Edwards void your warranty because you let your employees work with the software? I would hope not.

Also, where do these independent contractors come from? I would guess that most independents have worked for a business partner at one time in their past. I've also known business partners to sub-contract with independents from time to time... Hmmm...

Some of the most talented and skilled JD Edwards professionals I have met are (or have been at one time) independent contractors. Nothing against Business Partners, I use to work for a good one. I just don't like the big guys stepping all over the little guys just because they don't like to share...

Just my 2 cents. Peace.

Ken

XE SP 16
Win2000/Oracle 8.1.6.

wow

After my post, I got a bunch of replies !!!!

By the way - someone did point out that not all Business Parters are generally bad and certain partners will send out green people on a customer implementation for free to shadow their senior consultants.

You're right - and I felt I needed to correct my original post. I have worked with some very good partners - but I have worked with some god-awful ones as well. Sorry for being too generalistic...!

Remember customers, it is up to YOU to determine how experienced each consultant is. Do not feel as if you can't send back a consultant if they don't cut the mustard on your project - some consultants may just not have the experience in your type of implementation, and they MUST be able to get up and do the work from day one. It takes a person a MINIMUM of 6 months to get up to speed as a consultant on OneWorld. Don't take anything less. I have seen "partner" developers turn up at customers who have never worked on the OneWorld toolset - who have mysteriously opened up functions such as the B4200310 for no reason and have "played" in the system. Imagine that ! At some point, the system is going to run YOUR business - not the partners. Expect the system to be returned to you in good order !

But back to the main point - independents have gotten a heck of a rough time especially from "partners". Independents will work on behalf of the customer - they will not try and shoe-horn in a bunch more independents that they know - why should they ? All they're after is an honest rate (that goes directly to the independent) and a good reference at the end of the project. They're not in it for the 15%...!

Of course, JDE doesn't make a penny from non-partners - remember, 15% of your fees go directly to JDE.

Have fun !

Jon Steel
Xe Upgrade Specialist
erpSOURCING LLC

ERP Sourcing
http://www.erpsourcing.com
[email protected]

Sing it from the hilltops Jon my man!

----- Original Message -----
From: "altquark" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: Rumors


generally bad and certain partners will send out green people on a customer
implementation for free to shadow their senior consultants.
worked with some very good partners - but I have worked with some god-awful
ones as well. Sorry for being too generalistic...!
consultant is. Do not feel as if you can't send back a consultant if they
don't cut the mustard on your project - some consultants may just not have
the experience in your type of implementation, and they MUST be able to get
up and do the work from day one. It takes a person a MINIMUM of 6 months to
get up to speed as a consultant on OneWorld. Don't take anything less. I
have seen "partner" developers turn up at customers who have never worked on
the OneWorld toolset - who have mysteriously opened up functions such as the
B4200310 for no reason and have "played" in the system. Imagine that ! At
some point, the system is going to run YOUR business - not the partners.
Expect the system to be returned to you in good order !
time especially from "partners". Independents will work on behalf of the
customer - they will not try and shoe-horn in a bunch more independents that
they know - why should they ? All they're after is an honest rate (that
goes directly to the independent) and a good reference at the end of the
project. They're not in it for the 15%...!
your fees go directly to JDE.
http://www.jdelist.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=OW&Number=2
9551

Re: RE: Rumors

JGersic

I think you are not looking at the real picture here.
How can you compare the two.

If a company hires an independent and he can't perform, all it will have to do is to fire the consultant. But if you are a partner and your consultant can't perform, the BP get to bring someone else who may not be seasoned in JDE.

It takes a lot of guts for someone to decide to become independent and I am sure if you don't have the qualifications you will not likely make that bold move.

I am certified in all financial modules, how does that make me invalidating the warranty?
It is just greed on the part of JDE to act that way.
Antitrust,collusion and blackmail: do these words sound like something you may have studied in Business Law? If yes, that is what JDE is doing

OWman

Re: RE: Rumors

You make greed sound like a bad thing. For goodness
sakes, let's not forget that if JDE is not greedy and
goes out of business we're all hosed.

Do not bite the hand that feeds you and do not dance
with a 500lb. gorilla.

In the meantime feel free to throw around big,
legal-sounding words. They mean nothing outside a
court of law. I am amazed at the group of sea lawyers
we have here.


http://www.jdelist.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=OW&Number=29728


__________________________________________________

RE: RE: Rumors

Agree

Hi All,

The discussions in this thread seem to go nowhere. Pls consider this topic closed. Any posts into this thread will no longer be accepted.

Thanks for your understanding,

Rgds,

Sef van den Nieuwelaar
Australia
B732 on NT, XE on NT, B732/A73 on AS400, B733 on NT

* Coming to a European City near you soon *