Blue stack to red stack...

Ok, has anybody out there switched from the blue stack to the red stack? I know it's possible, and when people asked about it at Collaborate last year, everyone said it should be easily done, and would probably be free.

However, we've been trying to get someone at Oracle to tell us what we need to do to switch our license for the last six months. So I'm looking for someone who's done this and who/what department you talked to to get it done. We're getting incredibly frustrated -- the people we're talking to are completely unaware of what the Technology Foundation is and somewhat unsure what JDE is, despite our having explained it to them repeatedly!

Scotti

We're straddling the fence. Our 8.12 production and test systems are using MS SQL for the database, and OAS for the webserver.

We have the full Fusion Middleware suite, which requires OAS. We had to put in some Oracle databases to support that. That was a nightmare because the Oracle sales guys were clueless. The project was set back a good six months wrangling over the details.

For XE, I recently upgraded the web server fro WAS 4 to WAS 6. I am now trying to get OAS running with XE (with a MS SQL 2000 database).

For our cutting edge platform, we'll use windows 2008, SQL 2008, E1 9.0, and OAS.

We were using third party support, when we rejoined Oracle, we purchased a slew of OAS licenses, so that is our strategic direction. They want us to switch over to Oracle for the database, but we are resisting that because of the expense.

Switching over ain't easy. First you have to get through the sales hurdle, then the technology hurdle.

To the crux of your question - you need to be speaking to a sales manager. Even if this is just a change in your current contract, the only people with the mussel to push it through are the sales guys. Are you up for renual? It will help to dangle a commision in front of these guys.

- Gregg "Purple Stack" Larkin

We switched, and now Oracle are demanding lots of money to support it, which came as a bit of a surprise, as we hadn't got a maintenance contract with IBM for WebSphere... So in terms of your original question, no we don't really have a straight answer either.

We actually have two issues with OAS, the EBSS server randomises the fields on a published web service. The load balancer dosn't work properly on a single machine.

We went Redstack as it was supposed to be quicker, cheaper, had a long term future and supported EBSS without have to buy the Rational Developer. WebSphere is a pain to administer and has a number of 'features' which caught me out once or twice, my favourite is the way that it restarts all of the JVMs if you make a minor config change and allow it to sync itself.

Have logged calls on both of the issues, for the balancing one they want lots of money so we can register it on MetaLink 2 having defeated the MetaLink 3 guys. For the EBSS radomisation issue the offical advice was:

1) Go back to WebSphere.
2) Wait for 11g which will be BEA WebLogic.

I seem to recall tinkering with WebLogic when HTML was first ported into OneWorld.

Had I known what I know now, I would have stayed on WebSphere and awaited WebLogic.

We started down that road too. At first, it was $0 cost to switch things around. After you dig into the details, finding out what software you get for "Free", what software you needed to pay for since the licensing didn't cover it, re-train staff, etc, we found that it would cost us more and provide no real benefit to the company.

Of course, Oracle stood behind the mantra of, "Oracle software running on Oracle software will always get primary support over other mfg's software." Making you always second guess the choice...

It came down to:
1. We didn't NEED it.
2. We would have to pay more for it.
3. We would have to pay for the conversion (consulting or inhouse).
4. We would have to retrain staff.
5. MS SQL 2005 64bit does everything we need just fine.
6. The DR options for Oracle were nice, but VERY expensive and not included in the price.
7. If you want to run databases on the server other than JDE, you would have to buy a new DB license.
8. etc
9. etc


It just didn't make sense. We stayed on MS, put in an EMC SAN, and never looked back.

Oh, and the communication problem you saw was the same we saw.

It took about 6 months to get the right people involved. About 3 months of that were, "no you can't do that, you need to pay" from salesmen.

They get backed into a corner and say, "OK, OK, we can do it no cost".

Then you start finding out the things that are not covered in the license which you need to make the option even work for you.

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and the communication problem you saw was the same we saw.

It took about 6 months to get the right people involved. About 3 months of that were, "no you can't do that, you need to pay" from salesmen.

[/ QUOTE ]

That part took me by surprise - the Fusion Muddleware project was delayed a good six months wrangling over database issues. And that came after we had already signed the contract and paid for it. Our integration developers are not real impressed with Fusion so far. It has not been a big improvement (and in on developers opinion, it is worse than) webmethods.

I am still working on getting OAS up and running for XE. We have it running for 8.12 and will have it running for 9.0. I don't have enough hands on time in OAS to offer an opinion as to whether it is better or worse than Websphere.

Gregg

So Greg what are you going to do when they rip out the OAS guts and replace it with WebLogic?

(I can hear the screams north of the border).

I heard about that over a year ago when I took my training classes. I'm not all that concerned about the JDE web servers. They shouldn't be a big deal to swap out. The big deal is going to be the changes to Fusion. They say that it will be a seemless migration, but I have my doubts when it comes to Fusion that it will be a clean transition.

- Gregg

Agreed, we didn't even attempt a DB swap, we have no Oracle DBA skills and through experience I've discovered that you really need one...

SQL Cluster is fine for us. May look at 64bit next year on another project.

[ QUOTE ]
Agreed, we didn't even attempt a DB swap, we have no Oracle DBA skills and through experience I've discovered that you really need one...


[/ QUOTE ]

Amen to that. Oracle has a great database if you have a monster sized database requirement, but it is expensive and requires a pricey DBA to support. We moved away from Oracle for JDE a number of years ago because of that. But over time, we have had a requirement to support a growing number of Oracle databases that forced us to hire an Oracle DBA to go along with our SQL DBAs.

- Gregg