applications not appearing on a menu

Please excuse me for this question; I have tried to search for an answer with no success.
We have a custom menu with several applications on it. When logging in as one user I can see 10 applications when logging in as a different user, in a different user group, I can only see 8. This happens on all environments thick and thin.
The two applications not showing have no security attached to them.
I have checked the details for the menu and there seems to be no differences between the 8 apps showing and the other 2.
We are not using Solution Explorer and we don’t use roles.
The two user groups start at different menus but can both navigate to this custom menu.
Is there something basic I have missed?

Very odd indeed, you've already looked at the obvious stuff.

I take it you are not under an "all doors closed" security model. If you are, the fact that there is no security attached to the two applications would be the problem.

Are you doing anything unusual with regards to row security against the F008x menu tables that is tripping you up?

Why not test granting back access to the two groups in question for the specific apps they cannot see? If they are secured out as part of *Public *All Run=N then granting back access will tell you that it is indeed a security issue. If that does not work, then the answer lies elsewhere, but my money is on security.

What about your OCM settings for the menu tables (eg. F0082 and F00821)?

We have got round the issue by granting specific access for the two applications to the user groups that require them.