kent_franken
Member
We've been using vmware for the deployment server and our main build server for a while now without any problems. Now, I'd like to virtualize our enterprise server too. Has anyone here done that?
altquark
Legendary Poster
absolutely. I've used VMWare for all aspects of OneWorld - including the database server - BUT, and I strongly underline the BUT - I've never done this for a production environment.
There are several benefits to VMWare of course, but I don't need to explain to you what they are - but for certain other aspects, there are some drawbacks as well.
First of all, a Virtual Machine will not be able to utilize multiple processors on the host without the use of the SMP addon to the Enterprise edition of VMWare (GSX ?) - this addon costs a substantial amount of cash beyond the "workstation" version.
Secondly, memory is going to be tight as well. Application servers require quite a bit of memory depending on the task types they are processing, and the 1Gb limit to Workstation will certainly cause you some issues. Of course, GSX gets over that, but you're looking at serious cash again.
Although CPU speed is within 95% of the host system (extremely efficient) - Disk subprocesses will also substantially slow down since there are now extra software layers between the virtual disks and the physical disks. This might not be detrimental to an application server - but certainly to a database server.
I love VMWare. I run FreeBSD and a number of "windows" and other unix types under the host, and it works for testing and for setting up multiple java servers. Its great for demonstration purposes - but I certainly would feel a little scared putting it onto a Production system !
There are several benefits to VMWare of course, but I don't need to explain to you what they are - but for certain other aspects, there are some drawbacks as well.
First of all, a Virtual Machine will not be able to utilize multiple processors on the host without the use of the SMP addon to the Enterprise edition of VMWare (GSX ?) - this addon costs a substantial amount of cash beyond the "workstation" version.
Secondly, memory is going to be tight as well. Application servers require quite a bit of memory depending on the task types they are processing, and the 1Gb limit to Workstation will certainly cause you some issues. Of course, GSX gets over that, but you're looking at serious cash again.
Although CPU speed is within 95% of the host system (extremely efficient) - Disk subprocesses will also substantially slow down since there are now extra software layers between the virtual disks and the physical disks. This might not be detrimental to an application server - but certainly to a database server.
I love VMWare. I run FreeBSD and a number of "windows" and other unix types under the host, and it works for testing and for setting up multiple java servers. Its great for demonstration purposes - but I certainly would feel a little scared putting it onto a Production system !
gregglarkin
Legendary Poster
Hi Kent
I echo Jon's sentiment to a point. I would avoid VMware for anything production. Why slow your production enterprise server down by adding in another layer of complexity. Our experience with vmware and jde has not been good. We do have one batch server on vmware, but that is supporting the py environments only.
Gregg Larkin
Praxair
I echo Jon's sentiment to a point. I would avoid VMware for anything production. Why slow your production enterprise server down by adding in another layer of complexity. Our experience with vmware and jde has not been good. We do have one batch server on vmware, but that is supporting the py environments only.
Gregg Larkin
Praxair
kent_franken
Member
The old enterprise is a dual P3-933 with 2 meg cache, 2 gigs of RAM, RAID and single 100BaseT.
The new VMware server is a dual P4-Xeon-3.2 with 6 gigs of RAM, RAID and dual gigabit Ethernet. The VMware on there is ESX server with the added SMP package. I would put just enterprise and deployment server on the box. (Hard to believe I just had that laying around, but our previous conversions from physical to virtual server went better than expected and I needed less VMware servers than I originally bought).
So, as far as VMware slowing the enterprise server down... Yes it would slow it (10%-20% ?) but overall it should be quite a performance increase from what we currently have.
The new VMware server is a dual P4-Xeon-3.2 with 6 gigs of RAM, RAID and dual gigabit Ethernet. The VMware on there is ESX server with the added SMP package. I would put just enterprise and deployment server on the box. (Hard to believe I just had that laying around, but our previous conversions from physical to virtual server went better than expected and I needed less VMware servers than I originally bought).
So, as far as VMware slowing the enterprise server down... Yes it would slow it (10%-20% ?) but overall it should be quite a performance increase from what we currently have.
shearerj
Reputable Poster
We attempted to run our development enterprise server as a VM on a 4-way 2ghz VMWare ESX server with SMP. After a couple of months of the developers complaining about speed, we finally moved it to a real server.
All disk/network intensive applications will experience a dramatic decrease in performance running as a VM.
All disk/network intensive applications will experience a dramatic decrease in performance running as a VM.
winterc
Well Known Member
I have been a supporter of VMWARE for quite a while and now our company has listened to me and we are about to start a large server consolidation. I always thought that the deployment server is a perfect candidate and it is nice that someone has it running in VMWARE. I would never run a DB server in VMWARE unless it was test or a small application. If ESX server came out with 4 CPU virtual support (currently only allowed 2 CPU's per virual machine with SMP) I would put the Enterprise server by itself on a single 4way box, I might lose a little performance but what a simple way to recover the server in case of disaster. VMWARE and Microsoft's VM will be a neccessity for the Intel world. PS.. get the data on a SAN.
altquark
Legendary Poster
I love the ability with VMWare to make your disks persistent - I have a number of machines on the internet - and if they ever get hacked, then I just "roll em back" ! Very very cool.
Disk and network operations are expensive with VMWare machines. I'm not sure if using a SAN will benefit above hosted drives - mainly because the NIC and the Drive Controller are "software based" - and as such are going to be inherently slower than a "real" PC.
However, as far as a VMWare deployment server goes - yes, I think this would work - BUT, I would hold reservations based on the experiences with another "hosted" deployment server solution from IBM ! For many years, IBM customers have often been sold the Integrated Netfinity solution - and, as many have experienced, it ended up being a costly, and very bad performing solution - many companies opting to go for seperate deployment servers later on. Although the majority of issues with the IFS cards stem from the COST of AS/400 DASD versus the low cost of Intel drives, I would still be hesitant in going for a VMWare Deployment Server solution for Production use based on these experiences.
KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid....a very very good methodology for designing your architecture !!!!
Disk and network operations are expensive with VMWare machines. I'm not sure if using a SAN will benefit above hosted drives - mainly because the NIC and the Drive Controller are "software based" - and as such are going to be inherently slower than a "real" PC.
However, as far as a VMWare deployment server goes - yes, I think this would work - BUT, I would hold reservations based on the experiences with another "hosted" deployment server solution from IBM ! For many years, IBM customers have often been sold the Integrated Netfinity solution - and, as many have experienced, it ended up being a costly, and very bad performing solution - many companies opting to go for seperate deployment servers later on. Although the majority of issues with the IFS cards stem from the COST of AS/400 DASD versus the low cost of Intel drives, I would still be hesitant in going for a VMWare Deployment Server solution for Production use based on these experiences.
KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid....a very very good methodology for designing your architecture !!!!
cmanderson
VIP Member
Do some timing benchmarks on a package build using a VMWare based deployment server versus a dedicated deployment server. You will see that Jon is correct. The networking is much slower in VMWare - and the more virtual servers you add to the same hardware - the slower it can get depending on utilization. This isn't going to be very important in a couple of years as they move away from the "package build" concept.
kent_franken
Member
If anyone is interested in using Enterprise1 on VMware, here is the final word from JDE/PeopleSoft:
Solution Summary
Date Created: 10/26/2004 11:53AM PDT
Date Modified: 01/08/2005 9:00AM PST
Solution ID: 200955472
Question: Does PeopleSoft support VMWare?
Solution: PeopleSoft certifies our products (PeopleTools and EnterpriseOne Tools) on certain operating systems (including Windows 2000, Windows Server 2003, Red Hat Enterprise Linux, etc.), not on specific hardware configurations. Therefore, as long as a customer configures VMWare virtual machines with supported operating systems, we will treat them as though they are independent (non-virtual) systems and provide full support.
Our support team will attempt to resolve issues using our own environments with the same operating system. We will treat VMWare virtual machines in a similar manner to any other non-virtual hardware system. That is, we will likely configure independent systems with a supported operating system for web/app/database servers and attempt to replicate a problem. In the event that we cannot replicate an issue on separate systems using the same OS, we will look to EMC/VMWare or the OS vendor to address the problem and will work with them to find a resolution.
This is also posted to Customer Connection:
http://www4.peoplesoft.com/psdb.nsf...penDocument&ExpandSection=4.9,3,1#_Section4.9):
Solution Summary
Date Created: 10/26/2004 11:53AM PDT
Date Modified: 01/08/2005 9:00AM PST
Solution ID: 200955472
Question: Does PeopleSoft support VMWare?
Solution: PeopleSoft certifies our products (PeopleTools and EnterpriseOne Tools) on certain operating systems (including Windows 2000, Windows Server 2003, Red Hat Enterprise Linux, etc.), not on specific hardware configurations. Therefore, as long as a customer configures VMWare virtual machines with supported operating systems, we will treat them as though they are independent (non-virtual) systems and provide full support.
Our support team will attempt to resolve issues using our own environments with the same operating system. We will treat VMWare virtual machines in a similar manner to any other non-virtual hardware system. That is, we will likely configure independent systems with a supported operating system for web/app/database servers and attempt to replicate a problem. In the event that we cannot replicate an issue on separate systems using the same OS, we will look to EMC/VMWare or the OS vendor to address the problem and will work with them to find a resolution.
This is also posted to Customer Connection:
http://www4.peoplesoft.com/psdb.nsf...penDocument&ExpandSection=4.9,3,1#_Section4.9):
