Linux as the Database Platform.

All,
Does anyone out there use Linux as their Database server OS for JDEdwards? We have seperated the application away from our database server so it is strictly a dabase server. We want to change the OS from Windows 2000 to Linux. JDEdwards say they dont support this, but I am interested to know if it is possible for JDEdwards to connect to a database running Linux as the OS.

Does anyone have anymore information or has tried this?

Thanks,

Stuart

Hi Stuart,
Yes it is technical possible to connect to database running on Linux. But I would not advise that because if some problems arise then vendor will say that it is not the supported configurtion. I am interested to know why do you want to do that. Is there any technical reason?

We have a separated our databases on NetApps Filer. So database services run on Windows Enterprise server server.. But all the datafiles resides on NetApp filer and it is supported configuration by vendor.

Hi,
The reason is that we are currently, as stated, running Oracle over Windows 2000. With Win2k there is a limitation of the platform that means you can only run up to 3GB of virtual memory on the server as Oracle.exe runs as a single process.

On Linux this runs as multiple processes and therefore removes the issue. We are coming close to this barrier ofter and sometimes have to reboot our server evey week to stop this from happening.

Then there is the business of stability and Windows vs Linux is no competition really....

Stuart

Hi Stuart
I agree with that Oracle.exe runs as single process in Windows NT and on Linux/Unix platforms each background process is running as a separate process. I do not have enough information about 3GB problem. We never experienced this problem. But it seems to me that you are talking about the SGA in Oracle database. Anyway you are the best judge to decide as you have all the information.
What about going towards Sun Solaries instead of Linux( supported by vendor But expensive).

The 3GB restriction you refer to is with the version of Win2k/Oracle that you
are using. As I was aware, Win2k Advanced supports up to 16GB of memory,
this being enabled by AWE (Address Windowing Extensions). Within Oracle
there has been the VLM option available since 7.3.4. Here is a link with
more detail
http://otn.oracle.com/tech/windows/rdbms/rdbmswin.htm
As regards stability, I have rarely come across any issues on a win2k/oracle
implementation that were as a result of the core OS or the database, more
often than not it has been 3rd party applications and poorly written device
drivers that seem to be at fault.
Regards,
Kieran Fitzgerald

Hi Stuart,

I have move CRP database for one client to Linux server. Their logic server is still a Hp9000 but the CRP data is on a Linux server. They wanted to do this because Oracle increase their licensing 50%.

They have been operating with this configuration for 3 months without any problems. BUT remember, logic must stay on a Unix server or an NT server. JD Edwards does not support Linux for logic.

I would move one schema to test to make sure there is any perfermance issue.

Hi Stuart

If you don't tell JDE - then yes, it is perfectly possible to migrate the OneWorld database over to a Linux machine.

I strongly recommend using a similar configuration to what I have - I use FreeBSD on an Intel machine - I get unbelievable uptime and performance and I use the open copy of Oracle 8i !!!

I have been evaluating running the HTML/JAS components on FreeBSD through Websphere - but beyond that, I do certainly have difficulties with the logic code not running under Linux

Anyway, as Adri will attest - I am a FreeBSD bigot beyond all Linux flavours (hey - if it works for ebay, apple, yahoo AND microsoft it can't be too bad !)

Enjoy....

Thanks for your comments - can you tell me in the database data source -
what do you put as the platform of the database server?

ie. we currently have "NTSRV"

Thanks,

Stuart


| | altquark |
| | <[email protected]>|
| | Sent by: |
| | owner-jdelist@jde|
| | list.com |
| | |
| | |
| | 03/25/2003 04:01 |
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| | Please respond to|
| | jdelist |
| | |
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| |
| To: [email protected] |
| cc: |
| Subject: Re: Linux as the Database Platform. |
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|




altquark replied to your post at the site: .
http://www.jdelist.com/ubb/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=OW&Number=52050

Hi Stuart

If you don't tell JDE - then yes, it is perfectly possible to migrate the
OneWorld database over to a Linux machine.

I strongly recommend using a similar configuration to what I have - I use
FreeBSD on an Intel machine - I get unbelievable uptime and performance and
I use the open copy of Oracle 8i !!!

I have been evaluating running the HTML/JAS components on FreeBSD through
Websphere - but beyond that, I do certainly have difficulties with the
logic code not running under Linux

Anyway, as Adri will attest - I am a FreeBSD bigot beyond all Linux
flavours (hey - if it works for ebay, apple, yahoo AND microsoft it can't
be too bad !)

Enjoy....






OneWorld XE SP20_C1, Oracle 8.1.7.3.0 on WIN2K.
Citrix clients running WIN2K.

Kieran,

The Oracle document that you point to clearly states that no matter what
switch you use, the maximum memory per process (in our case oracle.exe -
with threads running within that process) is limited to 3G.

You can use different methods to increase the amount of memory available
for cache, but this does not help when oracle itself is getting near the 3G
limit as would be caused by too many connections..

Steve Lehner

Global Information Systems
Westcon.Net
email: [email protected]
phone: 914 829 7457




kf <[email protected]>
Sent by: To: [email protected]
owner-jdelist@jde cc:
list.com Subject: RE: Linux as the Database Platform.


03/25/2003 05:46
PM
Please respond to
jdelist






The 3GB restriction you refer to is with the version of Win2k/Oracle that
you
are using. As I was aware, Win2k Advanced supports up to 16GB of memory,
this being enabled by AWE (Address Windowing Extensions). Within Oracle
there has been the VLM option available since 7.3.4. Here is a link with
more detail
http://otn.oracle.com/tech/windows/rdbms/rdbmswin.htm
As regards stability, I have rarely come across any issues on a
win2k/oracle
implementation that were as a result of the core OS or the database, more
often than not it has been 3rd party applications and poorly written device
drivers that seem to be at fault.
Regards,
Kieran Fitzgerald
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Re: RE: Linux as the Database Platform.

Hi Steve
Here are my 2 cents.
Paragraph from Kieran's email. Very good point.
"As regards stability, I have rarely come across any issues on a win2k/oracle implementation that were as a result of the core OS or the database, more often than not it has been 3rd party applications and poorly written device drivers that seem to be at fault".

Our SGA( Shared Global Area in Oracle) for production database is around 200Mb for JDEdwards ERP around 50 users. I have even supported around 1000 users on Oracle database with 500MB SGA(Legacy systems) without any memory performance problem. I do not see any reason why any good written application with proper indexes should even use more than 1GB of SGA. If there is a memory related peformance issue in Oracle then I would check the hit ratio(memory performance indicator) in Oracle databases first and evaluate the root cause before incresing the SGA( Most of the time I found it full table scans).

Nothing against Linux. There can be other reason to migrate to Linux. But I do not see memory address space as the reason to migrate.
Hope this is helpful.

I have NTSRV in there too - but you realize it doesn't use the platform type for a database datasource. Try putting in "AS400" !!!! It should still work !!!!

Server Name and Server Type are used purely for Logic Datasources.

Steve,
I don't deny that oracle will go belly up when the sga approaches
3gb, the memory management I mentioned before was with regards to the cache
etc which normally accounts for the bulk of memory allocated. I would agree
with Vivek that the size of the sga seems excessive in my experience, though
this will depend on the volume of users connecting. If your memory problem
is with regards to client connections pre-allocating VM on your database
server (I believe it was 1mb in V7.3), then there are other options you
should look at such as MTS which will improve memory usage by pooling user
connections as opposed to running in dedicated server mode, or even reducing
that initial 1mb..
Regards,
Kieran Fitzgerald

Re: RE: Linux as the Database Platform.

Wow Vivek

You're telling me you'd rather work with Oracle on Windows NT than with Oracle on a Linux platform?

As a freind would wont to say

"Whoa....dude"

Hee hee

Of course, a primary reason for moving to a Linux Oracle platform would not be primarily for performance - but it would be for cost. Remember all those nasty little MSFT Licenses and CAL's you'd have to buy for your NT platform.....

Oracle is $15,000 for Standard Edition plus $300 for each "named" user. A 105 user implementation is therefore $45,000 for database licenses - no additional cost for Linux or FreeBSD.

Add NT licenses for the same plan and you're looking at $1300 for Advanced Server with 25 CAL's and $140 for every 5 CAL's (another $11k)

It might not be a huge amount - but $12k would certainly purchase a Citrix box instead.

The big questions are - could OneWorld run on Lite Edition Oracle on Linux ? I'm going to see if it works - and also if it runs correctly on UDB/Linux. Theres some significant savings there which should directly compete against a 100 user SQL Server cost of about $20000.

Re: RE: Linux as the Database Platform.

No I did not mean that. If you read my mail carefully then I made it very clear that "there may be other reasons to migrate to Linux/Unix" platform.

1. You specified one reason as Licensing ( I would not go for named user license. I would go for processor based $15000/- Per processor.)

2. Consolidation----> Many databases can share the same database server to avoid again the licensing and maintenance cost.. But for this kind of scenario I would consider both Solaries and Linux and compare.

3 Your existing hardware utilization and support for hardware in your company.

But definately I do not see the memory issue as the reason to migrate.
Anyway thanks for your statistics and it seems that we are on the page

Re: RE: Linux as the Database Platform.

Sure - Solaris _seems_ to be nice

but

compare the performance of a 4-Way top of the range Solaris Box to a 4-Way 2.6Ghz Xeon

Then compare the cost differences

In which scenario, specifically, would Solaris beat an Intel based Linux server ? Certainly not on performance, and certainly not on cost.

But we weren't talking about Sun machines - we were talking about Intel machines, and the differences between Windows NT and Linux from a cost perspective.

I would rather not get into another consultant pxxxxing match about what Unix variant is better than what Linux variant.

JDE only supports HP-UX, AIX and Slowaris.

However, some of the largest companies on the planet - Yahoo, Ebay, Apple and Microsoft - only use/support one *nix - and if its good enough for Uncle Bill, its good enough for me - thats why I run Oracle under FreeBSD (a True Server OS - unlike Linux). You should try it sometime....very liberating....

Re: RE: Linux as the Database Platform.

By the way - this type of bantering is _exactly_ why the top CIO's and CTO's don't like *nix - you're damned if you select a variant of *nix over any other variant because someone will browbeat about how "Redhat is SO much better than Solaris" blah blah blah

Thats why they resign to purchasing Windows - theres no other competition - and its only the browbeaters that sit there in shock at the decision to go with Microsoft - but by then, its too late.

I really don't care what version of an Operating System you purchase - I'm a huge Microsoft Bigot and a huge FreeBSD bigot - and I'm certified to implement all JD Edwards Operating Systems and Database Types. There really isn't any "obvious" benefit between any OS and Database type - SQL Server is as good as Oracle for the types of users it addresses - and DB/2 works well on the AS/400 which has different types of Operations Staff. Running OneWorld on AIX works in almost an identical method as HP-UX and Solaris. It really doesn't matter - which is why we have something called CNC to insure against platform changes such as this.

Re: RE: Linux as the Database Platform.

"..and a huge Freebsd bigot.."

FreeBSD? I thought FreeBSD was dead...

Re: RE: Linux as the Database Platform.

Golly...

I hope not - after all, Microsoft and Apple have all banked their futures on it....

Apple OS-X is FreeBSD with a "mac" GUI

Microsoft is ONLY supporting FreeBSD as an Open Source OS For the .NET platform (and C=Sharp)

Oh yeah - and FreeBSD already supports AMD's new "Hammer" chip (AMD-64)

Course this is off the subject slightly....

Re: RE: Linux as the Database Platform.

Jon,

did you ever try/test Oracle on Linux as the Database provider for OneWorld?

Any Issues?

We've been kicking around the idea of Oracle on Linux - thie big issue for some is that Peoplesoft doesn't list it as a supported database platform. I don't think it should make a difference other than possibly install/setup scripts ...

Anyway your thoughts or anyone else's re Oracle on Linux would be appreciated.

Cheers,