intel to iseries or vice versa

Leafs

Active Member
just wondering if you started off with an Intel Enterprise Server and migrated to an AS/400 or iSeries 400 or the other way around and if so why?

Thank-You
 
This is a difficult question to answer. Most companies select the platform based upon the expertise of their existing staff. (For Instance if you are an Intel/NT shop then you probably would not put in an AS400 or the other way around). Each Platform has it's own unique benefits and drawbacks, however with good planning and CNC Tech support it is possible to get solid performance and reliability from all Platforms.

One Possible reason for changing from AS400 to NT is package Build/Deploy times (avg 6-9 hours on NT and 12 - 16(or more) when Central Objects are on an as400) on the other hand though the AS400 is a Solid Box and without some of the "Quirks" of Intel/NT.

Platform decision is best made after a thorough analysis of your Network, Existing Platforms, Number of JDE Users, projected transaction load, and staff skillsets.

if you'd like to Email me I'd be happy to discuss further.

Scott
 
I agree with Scott's analysis below, as the platform is usually staff
expertise/budget oriented.

HOWEVER...12-16 hours on an AS/400 with CO's is NOT accurate!!! There
are far too many considerations on an AS/400 to state that. Though this
time may be an "average", I find that most AS/400's are either not sized
correctly, or more commonly, not set up properly to achieve optimal
package building times.

At the client site I'm at now, with some minor tweaking (adjusting ODBC
definitions on the Deployment server, creating separate multithreaded
package building queues, etc.) I'm currently getting 2.5-3 hour FULL
package builds on a 4-way AS/400 (and that's not really a beefy AS/400).
I've rarely come into an AS/400 site that has been set up for optimal
package building.

Of course, I've also been to the client sites where they had a single
processor AS/400 with the minimal amount of memory to run OW...not much
you can do there.

I've also migrated customer's from Intel to AS/400 or from AS/400 to
Intel...so if that's your concern...yes, it's not pretty, but it can be
done. What I've done in the past is migrate "pieces" over...bring
Control Tables over...let it run for a week, then bring CO's over...let
it run for a week...etc. (the order is really dependent on DB size and
timing of the migration project).

Jim


On Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:47:19 -0800 (PST) S_CARNEY

One Possible reason for changing from AS400

Platform decision is best made after a thorough analysis

if you'd like to Email me

Scott

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Jim,

Without stepping into the platform holy war, I am curious about the 2.5 to 3 hour package builds on the AS/400 you have been able to get.

Does this 3 hour period include the whole build process -- Client and Server? Are you saying that the time from R9621 beginning to R9622 ending is 3 hours or less? If so I am duly impressed and amazed. (I know you said "FULL" just want to hear it again to be sure) Even with 4 CPU's, multi-threaded package build queues for the server side, memory pool and ASP tuning I have never been able to get that kind of performance.

Could you pass on a couple of details regarding the spec of the machine you are working with now. I have recently performed an install of an entry level box and I have found it to be significantly faster than the tier machine of two years ago. My install took only three days including the application of Update 6 to three path codes. I would be curious to know the model, CPU spec's, memory, etc. if you are willing to give out the information.

My two CPW on the holy war is that each platform has its merits and there is not simple answer to the intel versus iseries question.

Regards,
 
Will send out the specs when I get back down there on Thursday. But yes,
it is a new box and yes, I agree, the new boxes are showing some
remarkable gains in throughput. Perhaps IBM is using more hamsters
inside those boxes....or feeding them better.

And I agree, I don't wish to stir the platform debate, but let me say
this...spec out a 400 correctly, configure it for OneWorld properly...and
package build times will rival any other platform. Package build times
shouldn't even figure into the debate. Now if you're talking price for a
properly spec'd 400 as opposed....DOH!!! Did I just write that??!!??

However, my original point is that far too many times folks with 400's
just seem to resign theirselves to long package build times. My favorite
is "I had IBM here, they said it's set up correctly" without realizing
that "IBM" was their tech, who generally, knows or could care less about
any apps you're running and is looking at system setup from a purely
OS/400 level. My other favorite is that half the time logging is
activated on the deployment server (though I do admit it does wonders for
me as a consultant to be able in 30 seconds cut that client's package
build time by 35-50%!!!) . ;)

And yes, we're getting 3 hour FULL package builds, both client and
server, with CO's on the 400. I even told the admin at this client that
if he ever went to a user conference that if he told other folks from 400
shops that he was getting 3 hour full package builds, he should contact
the Federal Marshall's office and get into the witness protection
program.

Jim

On Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:42:53 -0800 (PST) JEMILLER

Without stepping into the platform holy war, I am curious about

Does this 3 hour period include the whole build process --

Could you pass on a

My two CPW on the holy war is

Regards,

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Yes, please inform how you got 2.5 - 3 hours for a full. We are running a 4-way S-20 with 4 gig of memory and 189gig of DASD (running from 76% to 82% full) Our average time for a full pkg is 7 hours on the 400 and 8 hours of the deploy. So any tweaking, or hints you can provide will beneifit all '400 shops I would think.
 
I Agree, Jim if you are doing Full Client and Server Builds that fast I'd love to get details from you. I have a few clients that would love to have that performance.
 
Actually - there are some reasons to migrate from one platform to another

For example, one customer could not decide on whether to implement HP9000 or AS400 - to the point where the decision over the platform was starting to significantly impact the start of the project.

As such, I recommended that the customer start their implementation on intel - since the platform choice makes very little difference, and during the CRP then they can decide which platform would best suit them. The customer could always then use the intel platform for another server after the conversion.

They did this, and started with an intel and Oracle - and they actually went live relatively fast on financials. Prior to going live on Distribution - they converted to the chosen HP9000 platform - and saved almost $1m on the platform choice because the technology had changed so dramatically. They went through another platform change (again, on the top end platform) recently, and are live with 1,300 concurrent users.

Another customer choice is moving from Oracle to SQL server for reduced license costs - of course, I can envisage a lot more customers moving from Oracle to UDB later on.

Another customer wanted to initially start with co-existence through a CRP - therefore they started on a required AS/400 platform, but by the time they were live on OneWorld (hence able to "turn off" the World software) they wanted to migrate to Solaris/Oracle since they perceived higher scalability architecture through the Unix environment (more than 4,000 users).

The point of all of the case scenario's is that the platform choice makes little difference in the initial implementation phase. Often, a customer will either switch to a larger box (especially when leases expire) or will switch to a different platform (for whatever reason) - but the conversion is relatively minor. OneWorld is extremely easy to take data from any platform to any other platform.

Hope that helps !
 
Hi Jim,

Did you get a chance to summarise the specs of the speed AS/400 you have been working with. I would truly be interested in its specific model, CPU, Memory and Disk Specs (Percentage of utilisation, single ASP or multiple ASP's, etc.)

Despite having at one time or another applied all the tuning/configuration measures you recommend I have never seen the package build speed you are reporting. I am trying to pin down at what point IBM's iSeries offering became capable of this type of performance.

When you get a moment please do pass on the details. There are a few of us who are quite interested.
 
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