JDE on SPARC/Solaris or Windows/IBM Flash?

[manni]

Hello,
we are actually running JDE on Windows Server (MS SQL) and are quite happy. Nevertheless we have to expand our setup as we will become a more global operating company. Thus have to run JDE in the future for around 1200 users (not concurrent but all over the world). Therefore Oracle wants to sell us some of their solutions ... explaining that those are certified and fully supported (and there is a cookbook). It sounds quite promising but I have some doubts. They call it the "optimized solution".
But we do not know anything about Solaris and SPARC - also we do not know anything about Oracle Database. I was thinking of installing an IBM Flash system as I/O is essential for JDE. Could anyone explain some pro's & con's? Will Solaris still exist in 5 years? What about HW support (costs)? Has anyone experience with such a migration?
Are there any statistics of JDE customers about the used OS and/or DB?

Thanks for your help and comments.

 

[altquark]

My personal opinion is that as a SQL Server customer, you want to be looking at running JDE on Linux/Oracle. The cost comparison is dramatically different than proprietary hardware - since you utilize intel hardware which can be virtualized (VMware/etc) or even on AWS. I've been involved in multiple migrations and implementation across many different platform types - and the flexibility of utilizing Oracle on Linux is second-to-none. If possible - later on, I'll also address how I/O and SQL Server might work for your implementation. The reality is that 1,200 named users should not be an issue for E1 on SQL Server, but if you absolutely are looking to migrate to Oracle Database, then you should absolutely be considering Linux as a platform (and either Redhat or OEL is fine).

 

[Larry_Jones]

Manni,

be aware that Oracle Database Enterprise Edition is a very pricy product when you include the modules you'll need. We've been running Oracle Std Edition for 16 years but recent changes on Oracle's licensing (# of processors allowed for Std Edition) are forcing us either to Oracle Enterprise Edition or SQL Server. We're planning on SQL Server.
Granted we're only 400 users compared to your 1200 but the price difference between the two products Enterprise Editions is substantial (ignoring what the Oracle Salesman says and doing the comparison yourself). Plus there is plenty of anecdotal evidence (from JDEList) that SQL Server can easily handle the load.

For what its worth,
Larry

 

[Kieran]

We have gone through something similar with Oracle recently , as we look to migrate from IBM AS400 to an ODA. The software licensing is by far the biggest chunk as the ODA x5-2 we looked at is relatively cheap. You really need the Enterprise Edition of Oracle if you want features like clustering, HA, the tuning packs etc. For Weblogic it seems better to buy the std editon, and cluster using a third party tool (even Oracle agreed with this in our meetings).

Kieran

 

[Tom_Davidson]

Kieran,

Your right about HA and tuning packs. But clustering is supported for SE, we have a non-JDE 8 node SE cluster (on VM), supporting 10 different DBs and it works well. As far as HA it took us a couple of days to figure out and script a log shipping and applying. Granted on our cluster we tolerate up to 15 minutes of data loss, so log shipping is a valid solution.

Tom Davidson

 

[Larry_Jones]

Here's the problem with Oracle Standard Edition I alluded to above:

1. Oracle Standard Edition is going away and is replaced by Standard Edition 2 (as of 12.1.0.2). See Oracle Doc 2027072.1.

2. "Oracle Database Standard Edition 2 may only be licensed on servers that have a maximum capacity of 2 sockets. When used with Oracle Real Application Clusters, Oracle Database Standard Edition 2 may only be licensed on a maximum of 2 one-socket servers. In addition, notwithstanding any provision in Your Oracle license agreement to the contrary, each Oracle Database Standard Edition 2 database may use a maximum of 16 CPU threads at any time. When used with Oracle Real Application Clusters, each Oracle Database Standard Edition 2 database may use a maximum of 8 CPU threads per instance at any time." This information is available in a number of places - just search for Oracle database licensing. It was called to our attention by our friendly neighborhood Oracle Sales Rep who was salivating at the commission opportunities he now had.

I don't know about you guys, but finding powerful boxes with only 1 or 2 CPU sockets is getting pretty hard now-a-days. Even desktops!

Basically Oracle is trying to greatly increase their database revenue by pushing companies that have been getting along with Std Edition into Enterprise Edition Licenses - even at the risk of alienating those companies (like my company - we're pissed!).

 

[Larry_Jones]

Manni - one last comment:

You said "They call it the "optimized solution".

I'm sure it is - optimized for Oracle's revenue stream that is.

 

[morglum666]

IMHO Oracle as a company has great technology, but the licensing will bleed you dry. It's not just JDE - its any product requiring Oracle.. you are going to be spending most of your dollars on licensing.

You can extend what you are doing on the SQL side. Keep your existing IT skillsets in use.

Malcolm

 

[Tom_Davidson]

Larry,

No argument there. We will probably abandon Oracle DBs on any product that supports MS SQL as we outgrow our cluster. On the other hand for small shops without MS SQL expertise even SE2 may be an option. We went with RAC not because we needed the HA (although that is a side benefit), but as a convenience for myself, it allows me to work on the servers during business hours instead of nights and weekends.

Tom

 

[BOster]

This is kind of a related question, but does anyone ever run MS SQL DB but then run Linux for JAS and Enterprise servers? We would like to some day move our JAS/ES servers from Windows to Linux to save on some MS licensing but I can see where we might want to retain MS SQL.

 

[Tom_Davidson]

Brian,

There is no reason why you can't. Personally I like the IBM i, it's reliability is unmatched, but that is personal. While not for JDE, I leave my Linux servers up for months at a time with no issues. I'd like to move my WebLogic installs to Linux but our current policy doesn't allow that. When it does, I'll be moving and for the same reason you quote.

Tom

 

[altquark]

Brian - you're not going to be able to do this. The JAS servers should be fine, since JAS uses JDBC to connect - so you should be able to install Weblogic/Websphere on Linux and then connect to SQL Server via JDBC. However, EnterpriseOne Logic uses ODBC to connect to the database, and although there is an "odbc" on Linux - the E1 Logic code isn't written for it on linux, so only Microsoft Windows will work to connect to SQL Server. I'm saying "only" but there is of course the JDBNet method of connecting a linux server to SQL Server/DB2, but its just not a good idea since the overhead on database activity will be doubled as the database server would also have to run JDE E1 logic services. If you want to go linux, then you are forced to use Oracle. If you want to use Microsoft SQL Server, they you are forced to use Windows. The JAS servers are somewhat independent of that of course. Until JDE creates a JDBC Driver for EnterpriseOne Logic services, then its going to continue for a while.