andyklee
Reputable Poster
This is worth reading. Steve Miranda is the Senior VP at Oracle in charge of application development:
AMR Research Interview with Steve Miranda
AMR Research Interview with Steve Miranda
gregglarkin
Legendary Poster
Andy,
I got about half way through the article and then fell into a vapourware coma. Their intentions sound good, but I bet it will take a few years before we hear of any big customers on conFusion apps.
I got about half way through the article and then fell into a vapourware coma. Their intentions sound good, but I bet it will take a few years before we hear of any big customers on conFusion apps.
altquark
Legendary Poster
[ QUOTE ]
In designing Fusion Applications, we wanted every part of the application to be business intelligence (BI) driven—every part—from the navigation, to the workflow, to the most basic transaction.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is the most important part of this interview I believe. My view is that Fusion Applications are going to sit on TOP of existing ERP and other business software products, and provide a nice single type of interface that drives the underlying product functionality.
Oracle Applications don't seem to be a replacement for ERP - but an extension to the next level. Perhaps its ERP3 ?
In designing Fusion Applications, we wanted every part of the application to be business intelligence (BI) driven—every part—from the navigation, to the workflow, to the most basic transaction.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is the most important part of this interview I believe. My view is that Fusion Applications are going to sit on TOP of existing ERP and other business software products, and provide a nice single type of interface that drives the underlying product functionality.
Oracle Applications don't seem to be a replacement for ERP - but an extension to the next level. Perhaps its ERP3 ?
andyklee
Reputable Poster
So, John, what is the underlying ERP software under Fusion Apps?
altquark
Legendary Poster
Re: RE: Detailed Interview with Steve Miranda on Fusion Apps
The underlying software will be Ebiz or JDE or Peoplesoft, or even SAP (because I'm certain that Oracle will support SAP for Fusion Apps, that would certainly be a market they'd want to capitalize on).
The issue I see is that Oracle Fusion Applications is NOT a solution for the SMB marketplace, that Oracle has made a lot of development to support the market they want to dominate - the Fortune 1000 and SAP's home territory - and this fighting between Oracle and SAP has left the smaller sized businesses without much of a solution.
There are a couple of other posts on here by business partners - where they've complained that the JDE Licensing has crept up in price to such a point, its not competitive anymore in the SMB marketplace against newcomers like Infocor, etc.
Oracle needs to do a better job by supporting the much wider small-business marketplace. Just like JDE did with Genesis - provide deeply discounted software to smaller companies, but with higher cost "addon" licensing and higher cost maintenance.
The underlying software will be Ebiz or JDE or Peoplesoft, or even SAP (because I'm certain that Oracle will support SAP for Fusion Apps, that would certainly be a market they'd want to capitalize on).
The issue I see is that Oracle Fusion Applications is NOT a solution for the SMB marketplace, that Oracle has made a lot of development to support the market they want to dominate - the Fortune 1000 and SAP's home territory - and this fighting between Oracle and SAP has left the smaller sized businesses without much of a solution.
There are a couple of other posts on here by business partners - where they've complained that the JDE Licensing has crept up in price to such a point, its not competitive anymore in the SMB marketplace against newcomers like Infocor, etc.
Oracle needs to do a better job by supporting the much wider small-business marketplace. Just like JDE did with Genesis - provide deeply discounted software to smaller companies, but with higher cost "addon" licensing and higher cost maintenance.
andyklee
Reputable Poster
RE: RE: Detailed Interview with Steve Miranda on Fusion Apps
Good point about Oracle wanting to dominate where SAP plays.
But, I'll be very surprised if Oracle isn't creating a 'new' set of
applications to run under the BI layer. I say 'new' because I think it will
be pretty similar to Oracle's EBS apps, but hopefully more than just the
next major release of EBS.
Andy
www.JDEtips.com
Good point about Oracle wanting to dominate where SAP plays.
But, I'll be very surprised if Oracle isn't creating a 'new' set of
applications to run under the BI layer. I say 'new' because I think it will
be pretty similar to Oracle's EBS apps, but hopefully more than just the
next major release of EBS.
Andy
www.JDEtips.com
glen7x
Well Known Member
Re: RE: Detailed Interview with Steve Miranda on Fusion Apps
From what I know, Oracle is building knowledge modules to migrate data from existing ERP system. partners can build the KM, which basically maps corresponding DB tables in the existing system to Fusion, integrating/migrating data.
Currently, JDE is left alone.
From what I know, Oracle is building knowledge modules to migrate data from existing ERP system. partners can build the KM, which basically maps corresponding DB tables in the existing system to Fusion, integrating/migrating data.
Currently, JDE is left alone.
morglum666
Well Known Member
Re: RE: Detailed Interview with Steve Miranda on Fusion Apps
The last person I talked to about Fusion (at some sort of event) basically said that the product was based on E business. God knows if that was true, I might have been talking to a sales guy..
My feeling is that the product will require a migration (data) from JDE, sacrificing all of the code built up over time. That's alright with me - If you want a good comparison I really enjoy Microsoft's Windows 7 but I would enjoy it a lot more if it didn't have 25 year+ compatibility code in it.
My best guess is that its still 3-5 years away from being useful/viable.
Malcolm
The last person I talked to about Fusion (at some sort of event) basically said that the product was based on E business. God knows if that was true, I might have been talking to a sales guy..
My feeling is that the product will require a migration (data) from JDE, sacrificing all of the code built up over time. That's alright with me - If you want a good comparison I really enjoy Microsoft's Windows 7 but I would enjoy it a lot more if it didn't have 25 year+ compatibility code in it.
My best guess is that its still 3-5 years away from being useful/viable.
Malcolm
altquark
Legendary Poster
Re: RE: Detailed Interview with Steve Miranda on Fusion Apps
I like the analogy about enjoying Windows 7 but would like it more without the 20 year old code in it. Thats probably what stopped you going to a Mac ! However, the analogy kind of fails there - because going to a mac rarely means you have to either convert or migrate your data - people wouldn't buy apple macs if they had to do that - instead, the same software runs natively on the mac (Microsoft Office for example).
The same will occur with Fusion. Whatever fusion looks like, if you have to "migrate" your data across using some sort of complex conversion strategy, likely that not many people will do it - so there WILL be a "simple" conversion strategy.
The same is not likely going to happen with the code however. Custom JDE code is unlikely going to be able to be "converted" across. But hey, most customers are "vanilla" right ?! (jk)
As I stated before, its unlikely that Oracle will force any of their ERP customers to go to fusion quickly. This will be a long, long parallel process over at least a decade.
My guess is that the first customers will be the AS/400 World customers. They have the least expectations of their code having to be migrated, and its probably a relatively easy functional sell....
I like the analogy about enjoying Windows 7 but would like it more without the 20 year old code in it. Thats probably what stopped you going to a Mac ! However, the analogy kind of fails there - because going to a mac rarely means you have to either convert or migrate your data - people wouldn't buy apple macs if they had to do that - instead, the same software runs natively on the mac (Microsoft Office for example).
The same will occur with Fusion. Whatever fusion looks like, if you have to "migrate" your data across using some sort of complex conversion strategy, likely that not many people will do it - so there WILL be a "simple" conversion strategy.
The same is not likely going to happen with the code however. Custom JDE code is unlikely going to be able to be "converted" across. But hey, most customers are "vanilla" right ?! (jk)
As I stated before, its unlikely that Oracle will force any of their ERP customers to go to fusion quickly. This will be a long, long parallel process over at least a decade.
My guess is that the first customers will be the AS/400 World customers. They have the least expectations of their code having to be migrated, and its probably a relatively easy functional sell....
glen7x
Well Known Member
Re: RE: Detailed Interview with Steve Miranda on Fusion Apps
Jon you are right. Oracle is NOT moving code. Only data. The tool being used is Oracle Data Integrator to move existing data to Fusion.
And I believe no FAT client. Data conversions are done out thru browser.
Jon you are right. Oracle is NOT moving code. Only data. The tool being used is Oracle Data Integrator to move existing data to Fusion.
And I believe no FAT client. Data conversions are done out thru browser.
Larry_Jones
Legendary Poster
Re: RE: Detailed Interview with Steve Miranda on Fusion Apps
"Data conversions are done out thru browser" ???
"Data conversions are done out thru browser" ???
Nashaat
Member
Re: RE: Detailed Interview with Steve Miranda on Fusion Apps
First off, its my pleasure to share this space with some of you experienced and senior gurus in our field. Thank you for the several years of advice and expertise you have brought in this field.
At a high level, I am in agreement with the advice and direction that Oracle and some of the implementation vendors have provided. What is still not clear is how the technology set is changing, will change and specifically what is needed. From my understanding on the many readings, Fusion Middleware, or specifically Fusion Applications provide a much higher set of technology needs, from implementation to maintenance phases. With the inclusion of larger database size, network changes, web knowledge with xml developers and java programmers comes a need to also change an organization. A typical IT group in a small size company does not necessary have all those components. Because some companies have internal web development teams, and some companies have internal CNC teams, they could be considered lucky. Imagine progressive companies that are outsourcing data centers, jde development, cnc management, and turning IT into a LEAN structure. Those companies will look for ways to effectively bring the Fusion platform by pre-emptively understanding what is needed and implementing it prior to a Fusion discussion. On the other hand, for companies with in-house expertise, updating their general IBM mentality to moving up the technology stack, is not an activity that can be changed overnight.
I feel that these types of discussions are very few and far between on "what an organization needs to do" to prepare for the next generation toolset.
Personally I have seen the BPM and KPI mindset within Oracle suite of products, and that is a major selling point with the changing business needs. To bring in new things, requires money and most importantly competency.
Migration can be done with Oracle Integrator, or with functional knowledge straight copy of databases (if the JDE structure is kept somewhat intact). However Fusion is still not clear to the C Level or to the Business Analysts. How can we make it simple ?
Sincerely,
(asking the simple questions)
Nashaat Sayed
First off, its my pleasure to share this space with some of you experienced and senior gurus in our field. Thank you for the several years of advice and expertise you have brought in this field.
At a high level, I am in agreement with the advice and direction that Oracle and some of the implementation vendors have provided. What is still not clear is how the technology set is changing, will change and specifically what is needed. From my understanding on the many readings, Fusion Middleware, or specifically Fusion Applications provide a much higher set of technology needs, from implementation to maintenance phases. With the inclusion of larger database size, network changes, web knowledge with xml developers and java programmers comes a need to also change an organization. A typical IT group in a small size company does not necessary have all those components. Because some companies have internal web development teams, and some companies have internal CNC teams, they could be considered lucky. Imagine progressive companies that are outsourcing data centers, jde development, cnc management, and turning IT into a LEAN structure. Those companies will look for ways to effectively bring the Fusion platform by pre-emptively understanding what is needed and implementing it prior to a Fusion discussion. On the other hand, for companies with in-house expertise, updating their general IBM mentality to moving up the technology stack, is not an activity that can be changed overnight.
I feel that these types of discussions are very few and far between on "what an organization needs to do" to prepare for the next generation toolset.
Personally I have seen the BPM and KPI mindset within Oracle suite of products, and that is a major selling point with the changing business needs. To bring in new things, requires money and most importantly competency.
Migration can be done with Oracle Integrator, or with functional knowledge straight copy of databases (if the JDE structure is kept somewhat intact). However Fusion is still not clear to the C Level or to the Business Analysts. How can we make it simple ?
Sincerely,
(asking the simple questions)
Nashaat Sayed
Pardha
Active Member
I got to this little late. Looks like this link is not current/valid anymore. Can someone send me the update or the contents of this research.
Thanks in advance.
Pardha
Thanks in advance.
Pardha
Chan Rana
Legendary Poster
Same for me seems the document is moved.
glen7x
Well Known Member
Re: RE: Detailed Interview with Steve Miranda on Fusion Apps
[ QUOTE ]
"Data conversions are done out thru browser" ???
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry; misquoted here. Meant that there is a machine running OAS (11g Middleware) and you use a browser to connect there and run conversions, design flows, manage stuff etc.
[ QUOTE ]
"Data conversions are done out thru browser" ???
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry; misquoted here. Meant that there is a machine running OAS (11g Middleware) and you use a browser to connect there and run conversions, design flows, manage stuff etc.
